With the popularity of romance novels, and more recently, “50 Shades of Grey”, women’s fictional erotica is becoming more accepted in society. This trend displays dissatisfaction in women today – but where does that come from? Join us as Priscilla Shirer tackles this tough topic with Danna Gresh and Dr. Juli Slattery!
so glad you’re joining me today this is
the chat and I’m glad you have come in
fact if you have never come and been a
part of our program you picked a very
interesting day to be a part of our
program because if we’re going to talk
about something that I think is gonna be
very interesting for you but it’s also
going to cause you to raise your
eyebrows just a little bit either way
I’m glad that you joined me on Priscilla
and the chat is our opportunity to do
just that to chat about some stuff that
matters in your life or should matter in
your life that you should be thinking
about because our culture is thinking
about it and introducing it and today we
have one of those topics that we’re
going to be discussing have you heard
about the book Fifty Shades of Grey if
you haven’t I’m sure that your daughter
has your niece has your mom has your
neighbor she’s heard of it 40 million
women have read this book and it is on
the hot topic of sexuality and so we’re
kind of getting a little raw today on
the program it’s going to be an exciting
show you are not going to want to miss
even one minute of it so stay tuned
we
topic that we’re going to tackle today
and let me just tell you this we have
lots of wonderful web shows that are for
every age every season of life you know
if you have your daughter and you want
to pull her in we have shows that are
appropriate for that this might not be
the one that young ears need to hear so
I want you to make a wise decision even
right now before we dive into this topic
about whether or not your daughter or
your niece or young person in your life
needs to watch this particular program
because we are talking about a very hot
topic is a little book called 50 shades
of grey and as I mentioned 40 million
women Plus have read this book in fact
this is one of the fastest selling books
of all time I think that it has sold
even faster than the Harry Potter series
and you know how many millions of people
have either seen that in the movie or
they have read it in books and so we got
to talk about this because it addresses
the topic of sexuality and women are
devouring this book what is it teaching
us what is it telling us is it
appropriate and do we have any business
reading this book to help us answer that
question we have a couple sisters who
are with us who are going to help us to
kind of do a little bit of business with
the Fifty Shades of Grey and so this is
Dan aggression miss Dan Allen here does
it be here thank you for having me I’m
so glad that you’re here we call both of
these ladies experts because they have
made it their business to study
sexuality and a woman who wants to honor
God with her body and honor her marriage
and be faithful to her Maradona has done
that her website is pure freedom organ
she really deals a lot with single women
and how they can make sure they are
protecting their bodies and their minds
body soul and spirit being prepared for
the man that God has for them and then
honoring God thank you so much for being
with us and helping us to understand all
this and then there’s a Miss Julie
Slattery will you please help me to make
Julie welcome Julie and I first
encountered each other at Focus on the
Family where she worked for many years
even before that though as a clinical
psychologist you would deal a lot
one-on-one with people in your practice
and she really has made it her business
to study sexuality as well and to study
it in the scriptures but also to study
it in the culture so you’re going to
help us to make um come to grips with
some of this material as well so I got
to be honest with you I have not read
through this book I’ve just chosen not
to do that and I just wanted you guys to
know that just because I’m holding
doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily
endorsing it but I wanted you to see
what folks are running into it the Sam’s
Club down the street or the Barnes &
Noble or the Walmart this is what
they’re looking at why have 40 million
plus women read this book what’s the
drive
I think it’s grachi a niche okay
and it might not be the right way to
scratch it but it’s definitely meeting
what they think is a need or it is
meeting they think it’s meeting a need
and I’m and there might be different
opinions on what that need is but women
are saying that it’s lightening up their
sex life and it probably is at least for
a short period of time Barbara Walters
on the view said that women are reading
it because what they really crave in
their lives and they can’t find anywhere
is a strong man oh and so they’re
finding it and they’re finding they
think they’re finding a strong man in
this book okay Julie tell us what the
book is about because for someone like
me honestly it was just in the last
couple months that I was even introduced
to the book I had no idea I’d never
heard of it I didn’t know what it was
about so for so for folks who had never
heard of Fifty Shades of Grey what’s in
the book what’s it about oh well I’ll
give a disclaimer as well that I haven’t
read the book and actually there are
three books that go in this series but
I’ve read enough to know what the
storyline is and that’s all I want to
know I really don’t want it in my head
but the essence of the book is that a
young woman meets this dashing older man
and falls in love immediately and within
the first week of them knowing each
other he has her sign basically a
contract saying you have to give me
permission to do whatever I want to you
and then affectionately yes and so it
unfolds that this includes a lot of
bondage a lot of harmful sexual and
perverted practices there’s a Red Room
of pain that he takes her into to engage
in some of these behaviors so it’s a
very twisted love story my understanding
that the critics have said it’s actually
not very well written but it is as Danna
said it is really getting into a need
and issues that women have down deep
inside that no one’s addressing and this
author has tapped into that I don’t
think
by accident I really think there’s
something very spiritual going on yeah
dr. Drew Pinsky says it’s pathological
and poorly written those are probably
two things you don’t want written about
your book right yeah
okay so I’ve got to ask you if you’ve
chosen not to read if you haven’t read
it then what gives you the authority to
talk about it if you haven’t read it
well you know I’ve studied sexuality for
about 15 years now and a very big part
of that has been studying the impact of
pornography as well as erotica we don’t
have as much research on the impact of
erotica as we do pornography but I think
a lot of the same conclusions would
would qualify for those two categories
and categorically pornography and
erotica while it might initially create
this new passion and this new interest
in sexuality even perhaps with your
husband over the course of time it draws
you away from intimacy with a person it
draws you away from intimacy and from
sexuality in fact New York magazine ran
an article obviously not from a
Christian perspective at all and found
that men who used porn were less likely
to be interested in sex with a real
partner but when they fasted from porn
they suddenly were interested in a real
person again I think what you’ll find is
that it creates an initial interest the
fact that it’s a not an external
addiction but one that your body is
creating means that your body can’t
sustain the arousal level it’s a
neurochemical addiction and so what it
eventually ends up in creating is not a
desire for more but a desire for
different that’s interesting so not more
you want different yes you’re going to
want something different very harmful to
the intimacy between a husband and a
wife okay everything you just described
that this book is about all that the
whole Red Room of pain all that stuff
none of that sounds exciting to me there
out of there’s nothing about that that
makes it do why
so why what would draw a woman who wants
intimacy and love and to feel passionate
and to feel you know satisfied and
fulfilled in her sexual relationship
with us with her spouse what would make
them excited about reading stuff like
that well we’ve just kind of given you
the broad brush okay but if you get into
the book which again I’m not
recommending any
and I’ve chosen not to do there are very
erotic passages and just like a man
looking at pornography women are wired
to connect more emotionally through a
storyline actually through literature
that heightens that arousal and you have
chemicals in your body that are designed
to respond now God created us with all
different kinds of chemicals that are
flying around our head in our bodies
during sexual intercourse some of those
are designed to to come into play when
there’s new and exciting love and those
are really the chemicals that draw us to
each other and draw us into this
lifetime commitment of marriage I mean
you remember that puppy loves you
remember just not be able to think about
anything else except for this man that
you’re so in love with if we didn’t have
those chemicals we’d probably never get
married well those are chemicals that we
we wish we had right on our years 300
years I survived them throwing his socks
on the floor without the chemicals let’s
just be real not those chemicals are
designed to only last a couple months
really and there are times I know but
there are times in marriage where you
can get them back slightly but the God
gave us other chemicals for marriage
like oxytocin and like chemicals that
are feel-good chemicals that life as
well and I’m at peace and I can sleep
and I can rest and I can actually endure
pain better and stress better than I
think that could yes so those are the
chemicals that really sustain a marriage
long term but what happens is that we
can get so addicted to that high give me
something new give me something exciting
give me something dangerous with
adrenaline and pornography and this is a
form of pornography are designed to hook
us on that high and as Danna said what
worked last week will not work this week
more and it becomes a dick different and
we also then can’t enjoy the deep
bonding committed sexual love that God
designed us to have that is supposed to
only get better with time
you know I think a lot of women are not
aware of what they’re getting into when
they read the book it’s such a buzzword
right now and I know that my best friend
called me and she said my 70 year old
mom has her name at the library to loan
50 shades of gray out
I mean she just had no idea she just
knew everybody was reading it a lot of
women I’ve counseled with who are
devastated by the impact that it’s had
in their heart in their minds are saying
I just didn’t know but once I got into
the book
I couldn’t stop reading it because they
were hooked on that honey like that
that’s the chemicals okay I want to
bring some a little bit of balance to
this because the reality is you guys
have studied sexuality in the culture
and all that stuff what’s your wives – I
mean you’re women who have sexual needs
sexual desires did you just say that on
a Christian radio talk show oh yeah come
on Julie I’ll own it I own it we all do
don’t we yes we do and the reality is I
don’t think that Christian women in
particular are talking about it really
we’re not we’re not just owning the back
we have sexual needs
check sexual desires and that we want
that that you know all the little
chemicals you were just talking we want
that feeling we want to be fulfilled in
our romantic relationship so how do we
balance the healthy need to be fulfilled
sexually okay here’s the deal a lot of
Christian women a lot of my friends that
I have talked to you that are married
they are kind of half enjoying sex with
their husband it’s not like what they
enjoy is being in his arms they enjoy
that connection but in terms of sex
itself being exciting and thrilling and
bringing them to a sense of satisfaction
and fulfillment they’re not quite
getting all of that in there I mean you
know it’s just kind of you know they got
to take or leave the sex part as long as
they’re kind of laying in his chest and
they get that closeness that’s what
works for them but as we know that does
not just work for the husband so they go
through with the whole thing but for
them sex isn’t it just it well totally
fulfilling so I created them to love it
it’s a gift from God so I would say
there’s probably two things that are
really important and I’ll just follow my
sword and say that I’ve been that woman
and you know I’ve been in that place and
the Lord really had to do two things for
me one was I had to go through some
sexual healing because if you have
sexual brokenness in your past whether
it’s something that you did when you
were 15 or you struggle with erotica or
you struggle with porn you can’t enjoy
the holy connection that God’s created
for your marriage bed
unless there’s healing in that part of
you and he did a deep deep work of
healing in my heart but then several
years ago I frankly came to Julie and I
said Julie there’s part in our who
hasn’t come to Julie we all go to Julie
I need help doctor Julie and I just said
you know there’s part of our marriage
that’s not working and I think there’s a
stem stigma sometimes for Christians
that marriage counseling or even sexual
therapy is is not a good thing I wish we
could call it marriage coaching yeah
praise Jesus the Gresham had a lot of
marriage coaching and I’m so thankful
and so we went to Julie and God by
sitting on her car isn’t it it’s like
you can’t it just just run on one good
tune-up at the beginning of the year
they’re there a couple of times maybe
throughout that you got to get the oil
change you’ve got to get you know you
got to stop at the gas station and get
the gas tank filled up doesn’t mean
anything’s broken it just means to keep
it running smoothly yeah you take it in
and sometimes it is broken and hey there
was a broken piece of me and Julie
advised me and I I went to the resources
of Clifford and Joyce Penner phenomenal
Christian sex therapists they have
written resources they do counseling and
man the Lord brought back a chemical
factory he just fixed it and hid the
chemical factory is alive and well we
shouldn’t be afraid as Christian women
to go to solid Christian resources to
fix that which is us or even not even
Christian women just women who were
taught up to grow grew up to be and
reared to be good girls and that what
that meant was kind of ignoring the
sexual part of you and I think that’s
part of what this book has done it’s
invited the sexual part out that has
been hindered in so many women for so
long would you think that yeah yeah
absolutely I think a lot of it is we’ve
been taught whether it’s in a church
setting or just our society that sex is
about men and a good wife will
understand her husband’s sexual needs
and meet those needs now there’s nothing
inherently wrong with that but that’s
not all God created sex for he created
for women and a woman’s sexuality is far
more difficult to discover it’s far more
complicated so what ends up happening in
most cases is that the sexual
relationship within marriage revolves
around the man
needs it revolves around and he’s ready
what he wants and the woman adopts this
attitude of okay this is my wifely duty
or I’m tired of this or I don’t count
what fifty Shades of Grey and other
things like that have done is they’ve
given women permission to be sexual and
unfortunately the church has not done
that our culture as a whole in terms of
morality hasn’t done that but if you
look in the Bible in one of st. Paul’s
letters first Corinthians 7 it talks
about how we’re not supposed to withhold
our bodies from each other when we’re
married and it starts with the woman’s
needs it says ladies your your body is
your husband’s but it says first your
husband’s body is yours and he’s
supposed to please you so you have God’s
Word saying women are sexual they have
sexual needs
he wants to speak sweetly to you through
his spirit he wants to give you the
comfort that only he can offer he’s the
one in the blink of an eye that can
change everything
you are supposed to personally have a
relationship with them
he wants to reignite the fire of your
relationship with him this weekend
the greatest miracle he can reform is in
your own heart and in your own mind not
necessarily in your circumstances it’s
in you oh don’t be good I got a feel
I want you to know that your God is able
now he can
have you not heard have you not heard
so you’re saying that there’s nothing
wrong with a woman discovering and
utilizing her sexuality within marriage
you’re just saying that
Fifty Shades of Grey and resources like
that have introduced it to us the wrong
right I’m not only saying there’s
nothing wrong with it I’m saying there’s
something very right about it good and
and sexuality in some ways is very
spiritual and they’re their whole parts
of women that I think are just shutting
down because of woundedness because they
don’t have permission they don’t know
how to explore sexuality within marriage
and so the world says we’ll we’ll help
you out with that and they’ve done it in
a very twisted way do you know Priscilla
what will turn your husband on more well
let’s be well let me tell let me tell
you being satisfied Ari is going to like
yes right wait to love a husband’s love
when they truly are in a committed
loving relationship it turns them on to
turn on their wife this is true love to
please their wives it is the greatest
turn on and I think Julie and I were
fighting about Song of Solomon in the in
the dressing room I just like to get
that on world for dating its baby baby
theology and so I might be wrong here at
least according her but the book starts
out with um let him kiss me with the
kisses of his mouth
it’s her pursuing the intimate sexual
relationship it’s her wanting the
pleasure and we should just pursue we
agree on that
absolutely okay so so go home tonight
and say baby Jerry let you you must kiss
me with the kisses under my husband he
to throw his jewel I know thank you
doctor with that I need some of that
okay you both have kept mentioning these
two words that in my mind would be the
same thing but I’m assuming they’re not
erotica pornography could you tell us
what the difference is if any between
those two things and how Fifty Shades
fits into that well I think the point of
both of them would be to stimulate with
no point other than to stimulate and by
that I mean that God created sex for
stimulation and yet to draw you towards
intimacy with another person whereas
pornography and erotica
sole purpose is stimulation self
stimulation solo sex if you will the
difference being though that pornography
involves pictures or videos and erotica
would do it solely through a written
literature okay so you you okay you just
brought up something I got to ask about
you said self stimulation which brings
in our I go there word masturbation you
just said that where I just out there on
television if you pat on yes if you have
any letters of complaint please write
them to Danny or Julia I want to talk
about masturbation because a lot of
women are dealing with it and honestly
they don’t know what to do with it they
don’t know if it in and of itself is
necessarily a sin against God they don’t
know if they’re feeling very guilty for
it please tell us what to do because as
you mentioned women are reading the book
yeah and then stimulating themselves
physically as a result of what happens
emotionally and chemically in their
bodies because of what they’re seeing
written down on the page
talk to us a bit about masturbation for
single women maybe Danna you can give us
help with this for single women and then
Julie maybe for married women what what
does this look like and how do we kind
of filter all this through well I think
we’ve got to start out by saying
masturbation at a basic level is a
physiological thing like brushing your
teeth is or sneezing it’s something
you’re doing to your body
I believe God created sex to be
something that brings us together to be
shared between one man and one woman
that was his purpose and his intention
and if you look at the Hebrew language
for sex in the Old Testament the word
means to miss the mark so you know
picture a bull’s eye and right in the
middle of that bull’s eye is God’s
intended best this is his intention and
his purpose if his purpose is to bring
us towards someone then if you’re
masturbating and becoming withdrawn into
your own self gratification then I think
it is sin now if it’s a tool that is
bringing you into the context of
marriage closer towards your husband
then it it may not be a sin which is a
very complicated territory and we bring
it before God and just say okay this is
is this right or wrong you take the
example of a single woman for maybe
she’s been married and then divorced and
she knows what sexuality is those
desires have been awakened she’s 45
years old she’s saying God I don’t know
how to handle these physical desires
these emotional desires is masturbation
the best way to fulfill those not
necessarily but in some respects and a
lot of experts believe this as long as
it’s not enslaving it can be a form of
natural release now I don’t have a
different advise that okay go for it
yes Danna well you know I work mostly
with single women okay and I think that
where I really agree with Julie is that
there’s an overly there there is an
unhealthy overly guilty feeling
associated often with masturbation I
don’t think when when someone is
enslaved and doing it habitually I’ve
had a missionary kid a 19 year old
missionary kid literally faint in my
arms when she finally confessed this is
she glaring it’s just that’s that’s
completely overriding the Holy Spirit’s
he doesn’t give us a spirit of
condemnation but maybe conviction and
there’s more shame with masturbation
than was sleeping around yes absolutely
wiseguy agree why is that because I
think it’s so hidden it’s so private you
know and it’s this and whenever there’s
this secret that no one’s addressing all
of a sudden the enemy just gets this
hold on you and there’s so much shame
married women feel incredible shame for
masturbation again even more than they
would reading Fifty Shades of Grey or
more than they would fantasizing or
acting out in a sexual affair which is
crazy
my encouragement is always I say it this
way sex is not a solo sport and while
there is there are exceptions I think in
my opinion where it draws you towards
your husband I think most of the time
for that single woman prior to marriage
it’s not going to do that it’s not going
to fulfill that purpose you know what
everything hard is usually worth it
yeah working out for a 5k run you know
going couch to 5k every all my friends
are doing that on Facebook I myself am
NOT I’m working on
five gate of the couch program but you
know it’s worth it to cross that finish
line and I know how hard you worked for
that I think for a single woman to be
able to say listen this over this high
sense of shame and guilt this is not
from God the Father but his best for you
is to do the hard work of pressing your
desires towards that wedding night and
do you think that a lot of dis faction
dissatisfaction rather that a lot of
women are experiencing in marriage is
because of what they did in singleness
well sometimes well I think almost all
of us learned about sex in the context
of shame whether it was sexual abuse or
it was acting out sexually or
masturbation or seeing something you
shouldn’t have seen and so our bodies
become hardwired to associate sexual
pleasure which is supposed to be good
with shame and guilt and when you get
married that doesn’t go away so there’s
a lot of retraining that needs to happen
and a lot of Christian women I think
because they feel that shame and guilt
they just subconsciously assume okay my
sexuality is bad it’s wrong to have
sexual feelings it’s wrong to enjoy this
too much and they shut they shut that
down even if they haven’t had there are
those exceptional cases where they
really have had a beautiful experience
of innocence I was counseling a young
woman for premarital counseling and she
was so innocent to it all that she was
reading this book that I had given her
to her and started telling her dad do
you know about orgasm I was like that’s
probably not an okay conversation with
your dad but that’s how innocent she was
yeah after marriage though because she
had heard no no from so many years she
had a hard time saying yes yes yes yeah
it’s still associated with shame the
message no no no I mean that was really
my background and that came with me into
marriage and the first decade was
difficult because when you hear no from
the church or from your parents the
association is there’s something wrong
with this but there has to be a no
attached to it but a know kind of
coupled with a yes in terms of here is
what God has given you your body for and
that you’re looking towards and forward
to something in terms of how the Lord
will allow you to use
different season of your life now let me
tell you this the very first time I was
introduced to Fifty Shades it was
because a woman in my church who didn’t
just you know show up out of the blue in
the past year she’s been a part of our
church for a very very long time I know
for sure she loves the Lord I know she
wants to honor her husband great woman
she came to me so excited about this
book because she said have you read
Fifty Shades and at the time I don’t
know what it was just a couple months
ago what in the world is that she
described it to me and she said it has
totally changed my marriage we have got
so much passion going on and intimacy
going on like we have never had going on
before so I want to talk to you a little
bit more about that we’ve got a part two
to this program and what we’re going to
continue to talk about is what is okay
for those of us who want to honor God we
want to honor our husbands we want to
have a passionate hot fiery relationship
with the man in our life we’re going to
talk about what is okay for us to do
what isn’t okay and how we can make sure
that not only our spouse is enjoying our
sexual relationship but that we’re
enjoying it because from what we’ve
heard today sex isn’t just for them it’s
for us too for us to be fulfilled and to
find satisfaction and enjoyment as well
so we’re going to have a great part two
to this so you’re going to want to hang
tight and not miss it thank you guys so
much for joining us we have had a great
conversation a great conversation thank
you we’ll see you next time