We’ve all been through deep hurts and rejection that we never saw coming, and they usually lead us to questions like:
Does Jesus actually understand what this feels like?
Can I truly recover from the pain and rejection I’ve experienced?
Is there a way to become so stable that I’m not shaken when people reject me?
Any of these sound familiar? Girl, you’re in good company, and if you’re ready to know the answers, TUNE IN. Today, Ginger, Jai, and Erin welcome Joyce and special guest Christine Caine to the set for a powerhouse conversation where they unpack the nitty-gritty details of how you can begin to heal from rejection.
Get ready to be encouraged, challenged, and reminded of God’s unconditional love + acceptance
P.S. After the recording, Joyce shared that she really felt this episode was anointed to help people, so we can’t wait for you to hear it!
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Joyce Meyer, one of the world’s leading practical Bible teachers and New York Times best-selling author, shares encouragement and advice to help us enjoy our daily lives.
With a heart to share Christ and love people, Joyce’s messages help people in all walks of life to grow in their faith, learn to study the Bible, find healing from the wounds of life, get answers to life’s questions and encounter the love of God in a powerful way.
[MUSIC]
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JOYCE: I THINK ONE OF THE BIG
MISTAKES THAT PEOPLE MAKE–
AND THIS RELATES
TO WHAT YOU’RE SAYING,
IS WE ALWAYS EQUATE
PAIN AS BEING BAD.
AND IT’S NOT.
[MUSIC]
GINGER: HI, FRIENDS.
WELCOME TO JOYCE MEYER’S
TALK IT OUT PODCAST,
WHERE JOYCE TEACHES THE WORD
OF GOD IN HER PRACTICAL,
NO-NONSENSE WAY THAT
WE ALL LOVE.
AND MY FRIENDS AND I,
TALK ABOUT THE REAL STUFF
OF LIVING IT AND WE HOLD
NOTHING BACK.
I’M GINGER STACHE, WITH JAI,
AND ERIN CLULEY,
THREE FRIENDS WHO UNDERSTAND
THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING HONEST,
LOVING WOMEN AROUND YOU.
AND WE JUST LOVE TALKING ABOUT
LIFE AND THE WORD OF GOD.
AND WHEN WE NEED A LITTLE
EXTRA HELP, AS IN TODAY,
OUR BEAUTIFUL FRIEND,
MS. JOYCE IS HERE TO ANSWER
OUR QUESTIONS.
AND TODAY,
WE HAVE A BONUS GUEST:
CHRISTINE CAINE, YAY!
CHRIS, WELCOME.
IT’S SO FUN TO HAVE YOU HERE.
CHRIS: I’M SO FIRED
UP TO BE PART OF THIS.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: WELL, WE ARE GOING
TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING TODAY,
THAT IS EVERY PERSON’S ISSUE.
IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER,
YOU HAVE ALL,
WE HAVE ALL EXPERIENCED
REJECTION IN OUR LIFE.
AND SO, THAT’S SOMETHING
THAT WE WANNA TALK ABOUT.
WE WANNA ENCOURAGE PEOPLE,
WE WANNA TALK ABOUT HOW
TO REJECT THE PAIN THAT
REJECTION WANTS TO BRING
IN OUR LIVES.
SO, LET ME JUST START.
HOW WOULD YOU GUYS DESCRIBE–
ANYBODY, HOW WOULD YOU
DESCRIBE WHAT REJECTION
DOES IN YOUR HEART?
LIKE, WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE?
WHAT DOES IT DO TO YOU?
BECAUSE THE IMPLICATIONS
OF IT ARE HUGE.
JAI: YEAH, WELL,
I CAN START BY SAYING WHAT
IT FELT LIKE TO ME RECENTLY,
WAS–TO MY HEART–THIS IS
HOW I DESCRIBED IT.
I JUST RECENTLY, WENT THROUGH
A DIVORCE AND WHAT I TOLD–
‘CUZ SOMEONE’S,
“HOW DO YOU FEEL?”
WELL, I WAS LIKE,
“WELL, IT FEELS LIKE
HE LITERALLY CUT MY CHEST OPEN,
GRABBED MY HEART,
AND SCRAPED IT AGAINST
BURNING ASPHALT, AND THEN,
TRIED TO PUT IT BACK INSIDE.”
LIKE, SERIOUSLY,
THAT’S THE PAIN THAT,
THAT REJECTION FELT LIKE FOR ME.
BECAUSE IT WAS SO UNEXPECTED
AND SO VERY PAINFUL.
SO, THAT WAS A LITTLE GRAPHIC,
BUT THAT’S HOW I FELT.
GINGER: I GET IT,
BECAUSE IT CAN BE THAT
EMOTIONAL AND A PHYSICAL PAIN,
AS WELL.
I MEAN, IT’LL JUST WRECK
YOUR WHOLE BODY.
JAI: YEAH, IT JUST–I COULD
PHYSICALLY FEEL PAIN.
JOYCE: WELL, GOD HAS CREATED
US FOR ACCEPTANCE.
I MEAN, THAT’S OUR GODLY DNA,
WE ALL WANT TO BE ACCEPTED.
AND SO, WHEN YOU’RE NOT
ACCEPTED, IT’S ALWAYS PAINFUL.
AND UNLESS YOU REALLY LEARN
WHO YOU ARE IN CHRIST,
WHICH WE’LL TALK ABOUT TODAY,
YOU BEGIN TO DO WHATEVER
YOU THINK YOU NEED
TO DO TO BE ACCEPTED.
WHICH IF YOU’RE NOT CAREFUL,
YOU END UP WITH EVERYBODY
ELSE RUNNING YOUR LIFE
AND YOU HAVING NO LIFE,
BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT MAKING
ANY OF YOUR OWN DECISIONS,
YOU’RE DOING WHATEVER YOU
THINK THEY WANT YOU TO DO,
SO THEY WILL LIKE YOU
AND BE PLEASED WITH YOU.
GINGER: THIS DRIVE TO AVOID
REJECTION IS HUGE,
IT IS POWERFUL.
LIKE, MOST OF US WILL
DO ANYTHING TO AVOID REJECTION.
DON’T YOU THINK, CHRIS?
HAVE YOU HAD THAT
EXPERIENCE IN YOUR LIFE?
CHRIS: OH, LISTEN.
I THINK REJECTION IS WHAT
I WOULD CALL MY ACHILLES HEEL.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, RIGHT–
THE FACT, HOW I THINK,
HOW I WAS CONCEIVED.
THE FACT THAT I WAS LEFT
IN A HOSPITAL UNNAMED
AND UNWANTED WHEN I WAS BORN,
THERE WAS THAT REJECTION.
AND I’M 55, THIS YEAR,
AND JUST–
I RECENTLY, YOU KNOW,
GOD HAS DONE SUCH A GREAT
HEALING WORK IN MY LIFE.
BUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO,
I EXPERIENCED THIS BETRAYAL
FROM A FRIEND THAT
I JUST WASN’T–YOU KNOW, DAVID–
I WAS THINKING IS JOYCE,
WHEN WE WERE TELLING
THIS STORY YESTERDAY.
THE PSALMIST SAID,
“IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
OKAY IF IT WAS MY ENEMY,
THAT WAS AGAINST ME.
BUT WHEN IT WAS MY FRIEND
THAT I WENT TO THE HOUSE
OF THE LORD WITH–”
AND THAT PSALM HAS GIVEN
ME GREAT SOLACE BECAUSE
OTHERWISE, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT,
“WHY DID IT IMPACT ME?”
BUT IT’S ALMOST
LIKE IT TRIGGERED,
SUCH A DEEP LEVEL
OF REJECTION AGAIN, GOING,
“I THOUGHT I’VE WORKED
THROUGH A LOT OF THIS,”
AND I HAVE, AND I KNEW
TO GO TO THE WORD BUT
THAT VISCERAL PAIN–
THERE WAS THIS ONE NIGHT
THAT I FELT LIKE THIS
VISCERAL PAIN AND THEN,
IN THAT MOMENT, THE HOLY SPIRIT
WAS LIKE, “CHRISTINE,
I’M HEALING AN EVEN
DEEPER LEVEL,”
FROM RIGHT WHEN I WAS IN MY
MOTHER’S WOMB, AND OBVIOUSLY,
CONCEIVED, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER–
GOD MEANT IT TO HAPPEN,
BUT IT WASN’T PLANNED
IN OBVIOUSLY, MY BIOLOGICAL
MOTHER AND FATHER’S PLAN.
AND SO, THE THING IS,
THAT REJECTION IS LIKE
AN ACHILLES HEEL.
SO, YOU CAN HAVE
VISCERAL REACTIONS.
AND I THINK,
IF I HADN’T LEARNED–
AND AGAIN, I’M GONNA SAY,
YOUR TEACHING, PROBABLY,
HAS DONE MORE IN MY LIFE
TO BRING HEALING,
THE ROOT OF REJECTION.
LIKE, IF I READ THAT
A HUNDRED TIMES,
I’M PROBABLY NOT
EVEN EXAGGERATING,
BECAUSE I HAVE HAD
TO REVISIT IT AND REVISIT IT.
BECAUSE IF THE ENEMY COULD
HAVE SHORT-CIRCUITED
MY PURPOSE IN ANY WAY,
OVER THESE LAST 30 YEARS,
IT WOULD BE OVER THAT ISSUE.
GINGER: WELL,
LET’S START THERE.
SO, WE’RE GONNA START WITH
A QUICK CLIP FROM JOYCE,
TALKING ABOUT THIS REJECTION
AND THE ROOT OF IT,
AND WHAT IT DOES IN OUR LIVES.
AND THEN, WE’LL ALL COME BACK
AND TALK ABOUT IT A LOT MORE.
TAKE A LISTEN.
JOYCE: WHEN YOU ARE
A REJECTION-BASED PERSON
OR YOU’RE AFRAID OF REJECTION,
IF EVERYBODY DOESN’T AGREE
WITH YOU, YOU FEEL REJECTED.
AND SO, IF DAVE AND I WERE
TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION,
IF HE DIDN’T AGREE WITH ME,
THEN I DIDN’T KNOW HOW
TO SEPARATE WHO I WAS
FROM MY OPINION.
AND SO, I HAD TO LEARN
THAT JUST BECAUSE HE DISAGREED
WITH MY OPINION DIDN’T MEAN
HE WAS REJECTING ME.
HE COULD REJECT MY OPINION
AND STILL LOVE ME.
AND THAT WAS SUCH A MAJOR
THING TO ME.
SO, MAYBE YOU NEED TO THINK
ABOUT THAT.
IF YOU CAN’T SEEM TO TALK
TO PEOPLE OR A CERTAIN PERSON
WITHOUT BLOWING UP IN ANGER ALL
THE TIME, THEN ASK GOD TO HELP
YOU GET TO THE ROOT OF IT.
AND MAYBE ASK GOD,
“DO I HAVE A–” YOU KNOW,
“HOW DO I FEEL WHEN SOMEBODY
DISAGREES WITH ME?
DO I FEEL INSULTED?
DO I FEEL LIKE THEY THINK
I’M STUPID?
DO I FEEL LIKE THEY
DON’T RESPECT ME?
DO I FEEL LIKE I’M BEING
REJECTED?”
AND LEARN HOW TO BE A PERSON
IN CHRIST WHO IS LOVED
AND VALUED, AND SEPARATE THAT
FROM WHAT YOU THINK AND WHAT YOU
DO AND ALL THOSE OTHER
MORE EXTERIOR THINGS.
DOES ANYBODY IN THE BUILDING
THINK THAT MAYBE YOU’RE STILL
DEALING WITH A LITTLE ROOT
OF REJECTION IN YOUR LIFE?
[AUDIENCE APPLAUDING]
JOYCE: THAT WAS A LOT
OF PEOPLE, BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU
STICK AROUND, WE’LL HAVE
SOMETHING FOR EVERYBODY.
[AUDIENCE LAUGHING]
JOYCE: ROOTS.
WHERE THERE’S ROTTEN FRUIT,
THERE’S A ROTTEN ROOT
SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE.
AND SOMETIMES YOU GOT TO GO
BEFORE THE LORD AND SAY,
“I DON’T CARE IF YOU
HAVE TO COMPLETELY TEAR
MY LIFE APART,
I WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM,
TO THE ROOT OF WHY I’M ANGRY,
WHY I GET SO ANGRY.
WHY DO I GET MAD EVERY TIME
I DON’T GET MY WAY?
WHY ARE MY EMOTIONS
OUT OF CONTROL?
WHY DO I WASTE SO MANY DAYS
IN SELF-PITY?”
AMEN?
GINGER: SO, EVERYONE
IS SAYING, “OH, I DON’T WANT
TO DO THAT.
I DON’T WANT TO GO THERE.
WHY DID SHE SAY THAT?”
BUT YOU’RE SO RIGHT.
I MEAN, IF WE DON’T ALLOW
THE PAIN OF DREDGING
SOME THINGS UP,
THEN THE FRUIT IS GOING
TO KEEP COMING OUT THE WAY
WE DON’T WANT IT TO.
JOYCE: I ASKED THE LORD,
ONE TIME, WHY IT HURTS
SO BAD TO GET WELL.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT’S LIKE,
YOU GET HURT, GETTING ALL
MESSED UP.
AND SO, WHY IS IT WHEN YOU
WANT TO GET WELL,
THAT IT HURTS SO BAD?
AND HE TAUGHT ME,
WHAT HE CALLED DOORWAYS OF PAIN.
YOU KNOW, LIKE WHEN
MY FATHER ABUSED ME,
I WENT THROUGH
A DOORWAY OF PAIN,
SO I GOT A LITTLE DEEPER
INTO BONDAGE.
WHEN MY MOTHER DIDN’T HELP ME,
WHEN SHE ABANDONED ME THEN
THAT WAS LIKE ANOTHER
DOORWAY OF PAIN.
AND SO, YOU HAVE TO CONFRONT
EACH ONE OF THOSE THINGS.
YOU KNOW, WHETHER,
IT’S YOU JUST CONFRONTING
IT IN YOUR MIND WITH YOU
AND GOD OR–
BUT USUALLY, IN ORDER TO GET
US TO CONFRONT THINGS,
GOD WILL HAVE TO, LOVINGLY,
PUT TOGETHER A SITUATION…
GINGER: OH, NO.
JOYCE: LIKE YOU HAD
THIS SITUATION.
THERE WAS SOMETHING IN THERE
THAT GOD WANTED TO COME
OUT THAT WOULD EVENTUALLY,
MAKE YOU FREER.
CHRIS: RIGHT, IT WOULD KILL
ME IN THE PROCESS.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
JOYCE: YOU KNOW, I SAID,
ONE TIME, SOMETHING–
I WAS GOING THROUGH SOMETHING
WITH DAVE WHEN I WAS
TRYING TO LEARN HOW
TO BE A “SUBMISSIVE WIFE.”
LADIES: AIR QUOTES.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
JOYCE: I HAVE SO LEARNED
THAT NOW.
BUT I SAID, “OH, GOD THIS
IS KILLING ME.”
AND HE SAID, “THAT’S EXACTLY
RIGHT.”
YOU KNOW, WE’RE–WE ARE
SUPPOSED TO DIE TO SELF.
BUT GOD’S GOT THIS LITTLE
TOOLBOX THAT HE USES,
AND IT IS ALL IN LOVE.
IT’S ULTIMATELY TO SET US FREE.
BUT I DON’T THINK YOU CAN GET
OVER PAIN WITHOUT GOING
THROUGH SOME PAIN TO CONFRONT
IT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T
UNDERSTAND THAT.
SO THEN, WHEN IT STARTS TO HURT,
THEY START TO BACK OFF.
CHRIS: YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST
THINKING, WHEN YOU SAID THAT,
I REMEMBER WHEN I SNAPPED
MY ACL IN MY SKI ACCIDENT
AND I HAD KNEE SURGERY,
THE DOCTOR CAME IN, THE PT,
RIGHT AFTER THE SURGERY.
AND HE SAID, “YOU KNOW,
CHRISTINE, MOST PEOPLE DON’T
RECOVER FULLY,” BECAUSE I BLEW
MY KNEE TOTALLY OUT.
HE SAID, “FROM YOUR KIND
OF ACCIDENT,” HE SAID,
“IT’S NOT THAT THEY CAN’T,”
HE SAID, “IN FACT,
WITH A HAMSTRING GRAFT
YOUR RIGHT KNEE IS NOW
STRONGER THAN YOUR LEFT KNEE.
BUT THE PAIN OF THE INJURY–
IT HAPPENED QUICKLY.
YOU HAD A SKI ACCIDENT,
IT WAS PAINFUL,
BUT IT HAPPENED QUICKLY.”
HE SAID, “BUT IT’S GONNA TAKE
AT LEAST SIX MONTHS OF RECOVERY,
AND THE PAIN OF RECOVERY
IS GOING TO FAR OUTWEIGH
THE PAIN OF THE INJURY.”
SO–AND I REMEMBER THESE WORDS,
HE SAID, “SO, CHRIS,
YOU CAN EITHER RECOVER
QUICKLY OR SLOWLY,
COMPLETELY OR PARTIALLY,
IT’S ENTIRELY UP TO YOU.
THE DEGREE, TO WHICH YOU ARE
WILLING TO EMBRACE THE PAIN
OF RECOVERY, IS THE DEGREE
TO WHICH YOU WILL RECOVER.”
JOYCE: THAT’S A VERY GOOD
EXAMPLE TO USE.
BECAUSE IT’S–
I MEAN, IF YOU FALL DOWN
AND REALLY SKINNED YOUR
KNEE REAL BAD, IT HURTS,
BUT IT ALMOST HURTS WORSE
WHEN IT STARTS TO FORM A SCAB.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE
TO LEAVE IT ALONE, AND JUST
LET IT DO WHAT IT’S DOING.
GINGER: IT’S SO HARD NOT
TO PICK AT IT, TO TRY TO GET
IT TO GO AWAY, YEAH.
JOYCE: BUT THAT’S WHAT
CAUSES SCARS.
WHEN WE PICK AT OUR WOUNDS
AND JUST GET THEM BLEEDING
ALL OVER AGAIN.
JAI: YEAH, I WAS JUST WITH
FAMILY THAT THEIR DAUGHTER
HAD GONE THROUGH SOME
EMOTIONAL REJECTION AND SOME
PAIN EVEN IN A CHURCH.
AND IT HAD CAUSED HER SO MUCH
EMOTIONAL PAIN, THAT IT WAS
CAUSING HER PHYSICAL PAIN,
THAT SHE HAD TO ACTUALLY
GO THROUGH TRAUMA THERAPY.
IN HER TRAUMA THERAPY,
THEY ACTUALLY PUT HER THROUGH
PAIN TO HELP HER RENEW HER MIND.
LIKE, AND THEY SAY, A LOT
OF PARENTS DON’T ALLOW THEIR
KIDS TO ACTUALLY FINISH
THE TREATMENT BECAUSE
IT’S TOO PAINFUL TO WATCH.
BUT THEN IT DOESN’T–
SOMETHING THAT TRIGGERS
IN THEIR BRAIN,
TO RENEW THEIR MIND, YOU KNOW,
THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT
PHYSICAL PAIN.
LIKE, EVEN IF IT’S LIKE,
STRAPPING THEM UP.
I WAS LIKE, “WOW, THAT
SOUNDS CRAZY.”
BUT THEN I IMMEDIATELY
THOUGHT ABOUT MY PERSONAL
LIFE AND I WAS LIKE, “WELL,
ISN’T THAT–” IT’S JUST WHAT
YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
YOU HAVE–
IN ORDER TO RENEW YOUR MIND,
SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW,
YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH
SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY
GO THROUGH AND YOUR MIND
CAN GET REFRESHED AND RENEWED.
JOYCE: IT’S LIKE, YOU CAN’T
BE SET FREE FROM FEAR UNLESS
YOU CONFRONT FEAR.
AND SO, IT’S THE SAME WAY WITH
ANY KIND OF AN EMOTIONAL INJURY,
YOU HAVE TO CONFRONT IT.
AND SO, SOMETIMES, GOD,
IN HIS GRACE AND MERCY SETS
UP A SITUATION THAT FORCES YOU
TO CONFRONT IT BECAUSE
WE’RE NOT LIKELY TO DO IT JUST
BY CHOICE.
GINGER: SO, REJECTION
IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT
THAN MAYBE,
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ABUSE.
I THINK, “WELL, I HAVEN’T
EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THAT.”
YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T HAVE
A SITUATION LIKE YOU GIRLS DID,
WHERE I HAD THAT KIND OF ABUSE.
BUT I’VE HAD, CERTAINLY,
SITUATIONS OF REJECTION THAT
HURT TO THE CORE, THAT WERE
SO UNEXPECTED, THAT WERE
FRIENDS, THAT, YOU KNOW,
WHATEVER IT MAY BE IN YOUR LIFE.
AND SO, THE PAIN FROM
THAT SURPRISES ME.
I SOMETIMES, I THINK, “I’M JUST
BEING SUCH A BABY, YOU KNOW,
I JUST NEED TO LET THIS GO.”
AND SOMETIMES, I’M RIGHT, I AM.
BUT ALSO, I THINK THERE ARE
A LOT OF OUR FRIENDS WHO
ARE LISTENING AND WATCHING,
RIGHT NOW, WHO THINK, “WELL,
YOU KNOW, I HAVEN’T BEEN THROUGH
THIS, BUT I STILL REALLY HURT.”
YOU KNOW, ‘CUZ REJECTION
IS REALLY HARD.
JOYCE: AND IT’S BECAUSE
WE’RE NOT CREATED FOR THAT.
WE’RE CREATED FOR LOVE AND
ACCEPTANCE.
AND SO, AS LONG AS YOU’RE–
ANYTIME, YOU GET REJECTED,
IT’S GOING TO HURT.
BUT YOU KNOW, A SCRIPTURE–
I HOPE I HAVE
THE REFERENCE RIGHT.
I THINK IT’S LUKE 10:16.
JESUS SAID, “IF THEY REJECT
YOU, THEY REJECT ME.”
GINGER: I LOVE THAT VERSE.
I MEAN, IT MAKES YOU FEEL
NOT ALONE.
JOYCE: YEAH, WELL,
IT KINDA IS LIKE, HE TAKES OUR
REJECTION PERSONALLY.
HE WAS REJECTED–DESPISED,
AND REJECTED, AND HATED FOR
NO REASON AT ALL.
THEY HATED HIM WITHOUT
A CAUSE I THINK THAT’S ONE
OF THE SADDEST SCRIPTURES
IN THE BIBLE.
“THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.”
AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT
ARE JUST–THEY’RE HATERS
AND THEY’RE GONNA HATE YOU
BECAUSE YOUR SUCCESSFUL,
THEY’RE GONNA HATE YOU,
IF YOU LOOK BETTER THAN THEY DO.
THEY’RE GONNA HATE YOU
IF YOU HAVE A NICER HOUSE
THAN THEY DO.
THERE’S JUST PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
SO, WE HAVE TO LEARN THAT NOT
EVERYBODY IS GOING TO LIKE US,
BUT GOD ALWAYS LOVES US
AND LEARN HOW–
THAT’S WHY I LOVE WHAT
THE BIBLE SAYS,
“EVEN THOUGH MY MOTHER AND MY
FATHER HAVE REJECTED ME,
THE LORD WILL TAKE
ME UP AND ADOPT ME.”
CHRIS: IT’S BEAUTIFUL.
JOYCE: AND SO, I DON’T KNOW–
I WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT
IT’S LIKE TO SIT ON YOUR
DAD’S LAP, OR TO GO TO YOUR
DAD FOR ADVICE, OR TO ENJOY
GOING TO FAMILY DINNER AT MOM
AND DAD’S.
BUT I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT
I MISSED IN MY CHILDHOOD
BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING
TO COMPARE IT TO.
I NEVER HAD IT.
BUT I DO TRUST THE WORD THAT
GOD WILL GIVE ME SOMETHING
MUCH BETTER.
AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT’S
REALLY PEOPLE’S ONLY HOPE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN GO THROUGH
ALL KINDS OF OTHER STUFF BUT
GOD’S THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN
RESTORE YOU AND HEAL YOU
IN A WAY THAT YOU CAN–
I DON’T LIKE BEING REJECTED,
EVEN TODAY.
NOBODY LIKES IT.
AND ESPECIALLY, IF IT’S A FRIEND
OR SOMEBODY THAT YOU LOVE,
IT’S REALLY HARD.
BUT YOU CAN RECOVER FROM IT,
BECAUSE JESUS WENT THROUGH IT.
AND IF HE WENT THROUGH
IT AND CAME OUT, OKAY,
ON THE OTHER SIDE, WE CAN TOO.
GINGER: IN MY BIBLE,
I HAD FROM HIGH SCHOOL,
ALL OF THOSE PLACES WHERE
JESUS FACED REJECTION,
THEY ARE HIGHLIGHTED,
AND CIRCLED, AND STARRED AND–
BECAUSE I JUST REMEMBER,
EVEN THEN, GOING THROUGH
THAT AND THINKING,
YOU KNOW, “HE GETS IT.”
THAT IS A HUGE THING IS THAT
HE GETS IT, AND HE GETS ME.
AND HE’S FELT IT, AS WELL.
AND SO, THAT WAS HUGE FOR ME.
AND I KNOW, ERIN, FOR YOU TOO,
YOU’VE TALKED ABOUT SIMILAR
THINGS THAT YOU’VE HAD TO FACE.
ERIN: I’M ACTUALLY, HAVING
THIS REALLY INTERESTING
EXPERIENCE OVER HERE,
LISTENING TO YOU GUYS.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
ERIN: I KNEW THIS WAS WHAT
WE WERE GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY,
AND I WAS LIKE, “YEAH,
I’VE EXPERIENCED REJECTION.
I’M GOOD.
AND I’VE SEEN GOD WORK
THROUGH ME.”
AND, AS WE’RE SITTING HERE
TALKING, I’M LIKE,
“I DON’T KNOW THAT I AM.”
I DON’T THINK–
IN THE PAST YEAR,
I’VE EXPERIENCED SOME OF THIS,
AND I THOUGHT I WAS GOOD.
AND NOW, I’M HEARING–LIKE,
YOU SAY STUFF, AND I’M LIKE,
“I DON’T KNOW THAT I AM.
I THINK THERE’S SOME THINGS
THAT I NEED TO GO BACK
AND GO THROUGH THAT PAIN AGAIN.”
JOYCE: BUT MAYBE, YOU’RE
GONNA GET ANOTHER LEVEL OF GOOD.
ERIN: BUT I DON’T WANT
TO DO ANOTHER ONE.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
ERIN: I GOT ENOUGH LEVELS
HERE, JOYCE, I’M GOOD.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
ERIN: NO, I WANT WHAT
YOU’RE SAYING.
I WANT TO GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
I THOUGHT I WAS GOOD.
BUT MAYBE, THIS IS GOD SAYING,
“NO, ERIN, LET ME–
LET’S DO THIS AGAIN.
LET’S GO DEEPER.”
JAI: LET’S GO DEEPER.
AND I KNOW WE’VE TALKED A LOT
ABOUT YOUR–THE REJECTION
THAT YOU EVEN EXPERIENCED,
LIKE EVEN, IN LIKE,
IN HIGH SCHOOL AND LIKE,
THAT STUFF’S TRIGGERING,
YOU KNOW, TO THINK ABOUT IT.
‘CUZ I THINK ABOUT MY DAUGHTER,
WE WERE HAVING CONVERSATIONS.
LIKE, SIM–JUST SIMPLE
CONVERSATIONS THAT SEEMED
KIND OF PETTY,
BUT THEY’RE REAL, RIGHT?
I HAD TO TELL HER, I WAS LIKE,
“I’MMA BE 40 THIS YEAR
AND I JUST GOT PEOPLE THAT
I THINK ARE MY REAL FRIENDS,”
YOU KNOW?
LIKE, EVERYBODY’S LIKE–
ERIN: WE ARE.
JAI: YOU ARE.
GINGER: ME TOO.
JAI: SO, I’M LIKE,
I HAVE MY TRIBE NOW.
BUT I MISSED THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL
‘CUZ EVERYONE HAD THAT.
BUT SHE WAS LIKE,
IN A TEXT TRAIN WITH SOME GROUPS
OF GIRLS AND SHE WAS LIKE,
“MOM, WHY DOESN’T ANYONE EVER
RESPOND WHEN I SAY SOMETHING?
I CAN ASK A QUESTION–”
SHE’S LIKE, THEY’RE ALL
CACKLING, CHATTING ABOUT
THE DUMBEST STUFF, RIGHT?
LIKE, BOYS OR DIFFERENT THINGS
THAT SHE’S JUST REALLY NOT–
SHE’S LIKE, “I’LL LAUGH, LIKE,
I’LL PUT LIKE A HA HA,”
YOU KNOW?
OR LIKE A LITTLE SMILE EMOJI.
BUT SHE’S LIKE,
“WHENEVER I SAY ANYTHING,”
YOU KNOW, SHE’S LIKE,
“THEY DON’T SAY ANYTHING.”
AND SHE’S LIKE, “SOMETIMES
THEY’RE MEAN TO PEOPLE AND
I MIGHT COME IN AND SAY LIKE,
‘WHY ARE WE SAYING THAT?
THAT’S NOT REALLY NICE.'”
I’M LIKE, “WELL, YOU’RE KIND
OF A BUZZKILL,
LIKE YOU’RE A CHRISTIAN.”
LIKE YOU ARE–
I’M SORRY, LIKE,
SHE’S THE ONE THAT’S LIKE,
“DON’T SAY MEAN THINGS ABOUT
PEOPLE,” AND THEN THEY’RE ALL
LIKE CRICKETS.
AND THEN SHE’S LIKE–
GINGER: WELL, GOOD FOR HER.
JAI: I MEAN, I’M PROUD
OF HER.
BUT SHE, LITERALLY,
LIKE, HER EYES WILL WELL UP,
SHE’S LIKE, “THIS HAPPENS
TO ME ALL THE TIME.
I DON’T KNOW IF I HAVE
MY TRIBE OR HAVE PEOPLE
THAT REALLY LIKE ME.”
ERIN: WE’LL MAKE HER PEOPLE.
JAI: I’M LIKE,
YOU’RE GONNA GET ‘EM.
LIKE, JUST KEEP THE FAITH
AND STAY STRONG.”
BUT THAT REJECTION,
THAT STUFF DIGS DEEP,
AND I’M JUST PRAYING LIKE,
THAT IT DOESN’T KEEP GO–
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE, WHEN YOU HAVE
DIFFERENT PEOPLE,
JUST KEEP REJECTING YOU.
JOYCE: YOU DON’T WANT
HER TO BE SCARRED FROM IT.
JAI: EXACTLY, SO…
ERIN: IT WAS CRAZY,
WHEN YOU–
WHAT I’VE EXPERIENCED RECENTLY,
LIKED IT, IT PUTS ME BACK
IN EIGHTH GRADE.
SO, THAT’S EXACTLY WHERE I GO,
IS THAT MOMENT, IN EIGHTH GRADE,
WHEN I FELT LIKE I WAS NOBODY
AND HAD NO FRIENDS,
AND NO–NOTHING.
AND IT’S CRAZY HOW–
I AM A 34-YEAR-OLD WOMAN
AND I STILL GO BACK TO BEING
A MIDDLE SCHOOL GIRL
IN THOSE MOMENTS.
CHRIS: I THINK THAT IS REAL.
I THINK THIS CONVERSATION’S
SO TIMELY.
OUR SOCIAL MEDIA WORLD,
I’VE GOT, YOU KNOW, TWO HIGH–
A HIGH SCHOOLER AND NOW
THE ELDEST HAS GONE TO COLLEGE.
BUT I’M WATCHING
IT IN REAL TIME.
I’M LOOKING AT MY LIFE
IN REAL TIME.
I’M WATCHING SOCIAL MEDIA
AND I’M THINKING THE ENEMY
IS HAVING A FIELD DAY.
HE COMES INTO THE GARDEN.
SHAME AND REJECTION;
BANG, GENESIS.
IT HASN’T CHANGED,
JUST HOW IT LOOKS CHANGES.
AND HERE’S THE CHALLENGE
FOR A LOT OF US,
AND OUR PEOPLE LISTENING,
THERE’S TWO SIDES,
AND JOYCE, AGAIN,
I THINK YOU’VE TOLD ME THIS.
I WISH IT DIDN’T TAKE
ME THIS LONG TO REALIZE IT.
SO, WE MIGHT BE HELPING SOMEONE,
RIGHT NOW.
IN OUR GENERATION AND OUT THERE,
EVERYTHING’S ABOUT, FIND YOUR
TRIBE, FIND YOUR COMMUNITY,
FIND YOUR–
WE’RE ALMOST CREATING ANOTHER
IDOL OF COMMUNITY AND TRIBE.
AND THIS WHAT
I’M CONCERNED ABOUT.
‘CUZ I’M WATCHING IT ON SOCIALS
BECAUSE NOW YOU CALL PEOPLE
OUT IN REAL TIME, YOU CANCEL
PEOPLE IN REAL TIME–
[LADIES LAUGHING]
JOYCE: HOW CAN YOU CANCEL ME?
JAI: YOU’VE BEEN CANCELLED.
CHRIS: BUT IT’S LIKE
THAT ISN’T IT?
BEFORE, AT LEAST, IF I WASN’T
INVITED TO THE PARTY
ON FRIDAY NIGHT,
I DIDN’T KNOW UNTIL MONDAY.
BECAUSE I HAD TO GO BACK
TO SCHOOL.
THERE WAS NO INTERNET IN MY DAY.
NOW, THOUGH, ON FRIDAY,
I’M SITTING IN MY ROOM
AND I’M SCROLLING THROUGH
AND EVERYONE’S POST–
FOR A KID–NOT JUST A KID,
ANY OF US, IT’S LIKE,
“HANG ON A MINUTE.
WHY WAS I NOT ON THAT THREAD?”
AND SO, THE ENEMY’S HAVING
A FIELD DAY.
AND I THINK WE ARE ALMOST
CREATING THIS THING
ALL OVER AGAIN.
AND CERTAINLY,
WHAT I WENT THROUGH,
A COUPLE YEARS AGO WAS LIKE,
“HANG ON A MINUTE,
MAYBE I STILL HAVEN’T RELIED
ULTIMATELY ON GOD ALONE.”
I DON’T MEAN TO BE DISCONNECTED
FROM HUMANS,
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY,
NO HUMAN BEING IS GONNA GIVE
YOU WHAT ONLY GOD CAN GIVE YOU.
AND IT’S ALMOST LIKE YOU’VE
GOTTA KEEP LEARNING IT,
AND LEARNING IT,
AND LEARNING IT.
AND IN OUR DAY AND AGE,
WITH ALL THE SOCIAL STUFF
THAT IS HAPPENING,
THIS SORT OF
“TRIBE COMMUNITY VIBE,”
FIND YOUR PEOPLE, DO–
I THINK THERE’S ALMOST SUCH
AN OVEREMPHASIS ON IT THAT
WE’RE STILL NOT DIRECTING
PEOPLE TO JESUS.
JOYCE: I THINK THAT’S
A VERY GOOD POINT.
I THINK THAT’S–
I’VE NEVER HEARD ANYBODY
TALK ABOUT IT LIKE THAT.
BUT I SPEND A LOT
OF TIME BY MYSELF.
I HAVE TO DO THAT
TO DO WHAT I’M DOING.
AND SOMETIMES, I ACTUALLY THINK,
I EVEN PRAYED ABOUT
IT THIS MORNING, IT WAS LIKE,
“IS THERE SOMETHING
WRONG WITH ME?”
YOU KNOW, THAT I DON’T FEEL
THAT I NEED A VILLAGE,
OR A TRIBE, OR…
YOU KNOW, IT’S LIKE,
I MEAN, I LOVE PEOPLE.
I HAVE FRIENDS.
BUT I DON’T NEED TO BE WITH
SOMEBODY ALL THE TIME
TO FEEL LOVED AND ACCEPTED.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
WHEN GOD CALLS YOU THERE
IS TO A CERTAIN DEGREE,
HE’S SEPARATING YOU,
AWAY FROM OTHER
THINGS UNTO HIMSELF.
AND SOMETIMES, IF YOU’RE HEARING
FROM TOO MANY PEOPLE,
YOU REALLY CAN’T HEAR FROM GOD.
AND WHEN GOD CALLED ME,
TO DO WHAT I’M DOING,
RIGHT AWAY, I GOT REJECTED
BY ALL THE PEOPLE THAT
I KNEW AT THAT TIME.
AND WHEN I LEFT THE CHURCH
THAT I WORKED IN FOR FIVE YEARS,
I GOT REJECTED BY ALL THE PEOPLE
THAT I KNEW AT THE TIME.
AND PEOPLE HAVE
TO UNDERSTAND THAT
REJECTION IS FROM THE DEVIL,
AND HE USES IT TO KEEP YOU
FROM MAKING PROGRESS.
YOU CAN ALMOST EXPECT
IT ON EVERY LEVEL THAT
YOU’RE ON.
WHEN GOD’S READY TO PROMOTE
YOU TO THE NEXT LEVEL,
THE DEVIL WILL LAUNCH AN ATTACK
OF REJECTION AGAINST YOU,
TO GET YOU SO FOCUSED
ON WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU,
THAT YOU REALLY CAN’T
GO FORWARD.
ERIN: ‘CUZ, WHEN YOU’RE
REJECTED, YOU GO INWARD,
AND ALL YOU CAN SEE
IS HOW TERRIBLE YOU ARE,
OR ALL THE FAULTS THAT YOU HAVE.
“I’M NOT PRETTY ENOUGH.
I’M NOT SMART ENOUGH.”
AND SO, THAT’S ALL YOU SEE.
JOYCE: WHEN GOD FIRST
CALLED ME, ONE OF THE HARDEST
THINGS I DEALT WITH WAS,
I WAS JUST FLAT-OUT LONELY,
BECAUSE I WAS USED TO BEING
A PART OF A TRIBE AT THE CHURCH,
AND WE HAD OUR GROUP,
AND EVERYTHING
THE LEADERSHIP DID,
I WAS A PART OF IT,
AND WE WENT ON RETREATS,
AND WE DID THIS,
AND WE HAD DINNERS.
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN,
I WASN’T INVITED ANYMORE,
AND I HADN’T REALLY MET
OTHER PEOPLE YET.
AND I WAS JUST FLAT-OUT LONELY.
AND EVERY TIME I WOULD TRY
TO GET IN LIKE A CHRISTIAN GROUP
OF MINISTERS OR SOMETHING,
I MEAN, HONESTLY,
IT WAS RIDICULOUS.
I MEAN, IT WAS JUST LIKE
GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW IT.
AND I REALLY CAME TO THE POINT
WHERE I UNDERSTOOD THAT GOD
WANTED SOME TIME WITH
ME TO MAKE ME WHAT
HE WANTED ME TO BE AND NOT
TO BE SO INFLUENCED.
BECAUSE I WAS INSECURE ENOUGH,
AT THAT TIME,
THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN
INFLUENCED BY ALL THESE
OTHER PEOPLE, TO THINK,
“OH, THAT’S THE WAY I NEED
TO DO IT.”
GINGER: I’VE HAD THAT SAME
EXPERIENCE WHERE FOR WHATEVER
REASON YOU GO THROUGH SEASONS
IN YOUR LIFE WHERE PEOPLE ARE
JUST KIND OF STRIPPED AWAY.
AND YOU BEGIN TO REALIZE
IT’S BECAUSE I HAVE TO FOCUS
ON MY RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST,
RIGHT NOW.
IT’S THE ONLY PLACE I’M GOING
TO GET WHAT I NEED.
AND GOD’S MAKING SURE
THAT I DO THIS,
WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT.
AND THAT DESIRE TO AVOID
REJECTION IS SO STRONG.
HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER BEEN
THIS BAD?
THIS IS HOW BAD I’VE BEEN.
THAT THERE HAVE EVEN BEEN
TIMES THAT I’LL REJECT PEOPLE
BEFORE THEY CAN REJECT ME.
JAI: EW, BEAT ‘EM
TO THE PUNCH.
GINGER: ABSOLUTELY.
JAI: YOU’RE CANCELLED!
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: I WANNA
CANCEL PEOPLE.
BUT NO, IT’S LIKE,
IF I START TO SEE SOMETHING
HAPPENING THEN I’LL THINK,
“OKAY, I’M FINE WITHOUT THEM.”
AND THEN, YOU REACT TO THINGS
THAT HAVEN’T EVEN HAPPENED YET,
BECAUSE OF THE WAY
YOU’RE THINKING.
HERE’S A CRAZY, FUNNY STORY,
JUST TO LIGHTEN THE MOOD
A LITTLE BIT.
ERIN: THANK YOU, PLEASE DO.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: I WAS ON A WALK
THE OTHER DAY IN OUR
NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I LOVE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD,
THE PEOPLE ARE GREAT,
THEY’RE REALLY FRIENDLY.
THE HOUSES AREN’T
REAL CLOSE TOGETHER,
SO I’M WALKING ALONG
AND I’M THINKING,
THERE’S NOBODY AROUND, YOU KNOW,
AND I FEEL LIKE THIS LITTLE
BURP COMING UP.
AND SO, IT’S JUST
ME AND THE DOG, RIGHT.
CHRIS: THANK GOD,
IT’S JUST A BURP.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: YEAH, IT WAS A BURP.
YEAH, IT WAS COMING UP,
NOT DOWN.
SO, ANYWAY,
THERE’S NO ONE AROUND, RIGHT?
I JUST LET OUT THIS BELCH,
RIGHT, AS I’M WALKING.
AND IT WAS A GOOD ONE.
IT WAS LOUD.
AND THIS MAN,
THIS NEIGHBOR POPS
UP FROM BEHIND A BUSH.
HE’S OUT DOING YARD WORK,
SO I COULDN’T SEE HIM.
AND SO, HE LOOKS
AT ME AND I LOOK AT HIM,
AND YOU KNOW WHAT I DID
TO AVOID THE EMBARRASSMENT
AND THE REJECTION?
I LOOKED AT MY TINY,
TEN-POUND DOG, AND I SAID,
“OH MY, WINSTON, ARE YOU OKAY?”
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: “THAT WAS REALLY BIG.
ARE YOU ALRIGHT?”
AND THEN, I LOOK AT HIM
AND LAUGH.
HOW SAD IS THAT,
THAT YOU’LL LIE
AND BLAME IT ON YOUR DOG,
TO AVOID ALL THE NEIGHBORS,
TALKING ABOUT GINGER WALKING
AND BURPING AROUND
OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
JOYCE: THAT’S GOOD.
THAT’S VERY GOOD.
GINGER: BUT THAT IS HOW
STRONG IT CAN BE THAT WE’LL
REJECT EACH OTHER FIRST,
WE’LL LIE, WE’LL DO WHATEVER
WE HAVE TO DO TO AVOID
THE HURT OF OTHER PEOPLE,
REJECTING US.
JOYCE: WELL, I THINK
THE LESSON THAT WE CAN
ALL LEARN FROM THIS IS THAT…
GINGER: I’M GLAD THERE
IS ONE.
JOYCE: WELL, AS LONG
AS WE HAVE ANY OF THAT–
WHICH MAY BE FOREVER,
I DON’T KNOW.
THERE’S STILL A PLACE IN GOD
WE NEED TO GO THAT WE HAVEN’T
GOTTEN TO YET.
SO, MAYBE, IT’S LIKE GOD SAYING,
YOU KNOW, “COME ON,
YOU GOT ANOTHER LITTLE LEVEL
TO GO THROUGH HERE.”
I MEAN, I HAVE SEASONS WHERE
I DON’T FEEL LIKE GOD’S DEALING
WITH ME ABOUT ANYTHING BUT
THEN SOMETHING WILL COME
UP AND IT’S LIKE,
“OH, NO.”
BUT I WENT THROUGH A LONG
SEASON WHERE I JUST FELT LIKE
ALL IT WAS JUST DEALING WITH ME,
AND PAIN, AND DEALING WITH ME,
AND CONFRONTING SITUATIONS.
BUT GOD WAS GETTING ME READY.
I KEPT ASKING HIM FOR
MY MINISTRY TO GROW,
AND FOR–LET ME HELP
ALL THESE PEOPLE.
BUT YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT GOD HAS TAUGHT ME,
THAT’S BEEN SO PRECIOUS TO ME,
IS: “YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS
REMEMBER, JOYCE, HOWEVER,
MANY PEOPLE YOU CAN HELP.
THAT’S HOW MANY YOU CAN HURT.”
AND SO, IF YOU WANT
THE PRIVILEGE OF MINISTERING
TO WHAT, A CITY, OR THE WORLD,
OR YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND PEOPLE
OR WHATEVER IT IS,
YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND THAT
IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE SPIRITUAL
MATURITY TO DO THAT,
YOU CAN HURT THOSE PEOPLE
THE SAME AS YOU CAN HELP THEM.
AND SO, I AM SO GLAD
THAT I LITERALLY,
AND I HOPE PEOPLE DON’T
MISUNDERSTAND THIS.
I MEAN, GOD WORKED
ME OVER BEFORE HE LET
ME LOOSE ON THE PUBLIC.
AND I’M GLAD.
I’M GLAD THAT HE DID
IT JUST THAT WAY.
IT WAS HARD GOING THROUGH IT.
I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND
WHAT WAS GOING ON.
I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND
WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
BUT LIKE YOU SAID,
I GOT ALL THE PEOPLE
STRIPPED AWAY FROM ME.
I FELT LIKE I WAS LONELY,
NOBODY CARED ABOUT ME.
EVERYBODY WAS AGAINST ME,
EVERYBODY THOUGHT
I WAS MISSING GOD,
I WAS DOING THE WRONG THING.
AND IT WAS LIKE,
IN ORDER TO OBEY GOD,
I HAD TO BE WILLING
TO HAVE JUST GOD,
IF THAT WAS WHAT IT WAS
GOING TO COME DOWN TO.
GINGER: WHEN I WAS
UNDERLINING ALL THOSE
SCRIPTURES ABOUT WHAT
CHRIST WENT THROUGH
WITH HIS OWN REJECTION,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
REALLY STUCK OUT TO ME,
WAS HE BEFRIENDED JUDAS
KNOWING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.
KNOWING THAT JUDAS WOULD
BE THE ONE TO BETRAY HIM
TO POINT OF DEATH.
YOU KNOW, LIKE NONE OF US HAVE
EVER FACED BETRAYAL,
PROBABLY BEFORE.
AND THE FACT THAT HE STILL WENT
INTO THAT RELATIONSHIP
WITH AN OPEN HEART,
LOVING HIM THROUGH IT.
HOW DO WE GET–
YOU KNOW, WE ALL WANT
TO BE MORE LIKE CHRIST.
HOW DO WE GET TO THAT POINT?
HOW DO WE START PULLING
OUT THESE ROOTS?
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS?
JOYCE: I DON’T THINK
IT’S SOMETHING THAT
WE JUST DECIDE TO DO.
I THINK IT’S SOMETHING THAT
THE HOLY SPIRIT KNOWS WHEN
WE’RE READY FOR WHAT.
SO, THAT’S THE GREAT THING
ABOUT GOING TO HIM
AS YOUR COUNSELOR.
BECAUSE AS A HUMAN COUNSELOR,
I COULD TRY TO DEAL
WITH SOMETHING IN SOMEBODY’S
LIFE THAT THEY’RE NOT REALLY
READY FOR, YOU KNOW?
BUT GOD KNOWS WHEN
YOU’RE READY FOR WHAT.
AND SO, IF YOU JUST TELL HIM,
“I WANT TO BE FREE
FROM ALL THIS.
I OPEN MY LIFE UP TO YOU.
I WANT YOU TO DO WHATEVER
YOU HAVE TO DO.”
I HAVE A FAVORITE THING I SAY,
“IF YOU HAVE TO TIE
ME TO THE ALTAR, YOU KNOW,
IN ORDER TO DO WHAT
YOU NEED TO DO,
SO I CAN’T GET AWAY FROM YOU,
THEN DO THAT.”
AND THEN I THINK GOD CHOOSES
WHEN AND HOW TO DEAL WITH YOU,
AND EVEN THROUGH WHOM TO DO IT.
JAI: I’M REMINDED OF LIKE,
ONE OF THE LAST TALK IT OUT’S
THAT WE DID.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST ME–
WHEN I WAS ACTUALLY SAYING–
I WAS THANKING THE PEOPLE
THAT REJECT ME.
LIKE, I THANKED–
I STARTED TO THANK
MY EX-HUSBAND AND I THA–
I WAS JUST–IT WAS DURING
EASTER, THAT EASTER SEASON
WHERE THAT PART REALLY JUST
SAT IN MY HEART ABOUT HOW
JESUS BEFRIENDED JUDAS,
AND HOW WHEN JESUS WAS
ON THE CROSS, HOW HE SAID,
“FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW
NOT WHAT THEY DO.”
AND HONESTLY, IT’S LIKE,
“YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW
WHO YOU MESSING WITH,”
YOU KNOW LIKE,
“I’M A KING’S KID.”
AND I WAS LIKE,
YOU KNOW WHAT?
THIS REJECTION–
PEOPLE SAY THIS ALL THE TIME,
THAT MAN’S REJECTION
IS GOD’S PROTECTION.
AND I ALSO SAY, IT’S ALSO,
GOD’S PREPARATION FOR ME,
FOR WHATEVER’S COMING NEXT,
LIKE THE PURPOSE OF GOING
THROUGH THE STORM,
IT’S–THERE’S PURPOSE IN THAT.
THERE’S PURPOSE
IN THAT REJECTION.
AND I JUST SEE GOD, EVEN NOW,
LIKE WORKING THAT THING OUT.
AND IN OUR FRIENDS
ON TALK IT OUT,
Y’ALL HAVE BEEN
THROUGH IT WITH ME.
YOU’VE BEEN THERE FROM
THE BEGINNING, YOU KNOW?
FOR ME TO BE LIKE…
TO NOW SEEING A GLIMPSE.
I DON’T SEE THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW,
THE WHOLE HAPPY ENDING,
OR IF THAT EVEN EXISTS.
BUT ME ACCEPTING THE EBBS
AND FLOWS OF RELATIONSHIPS
AND UNDERSTANDING THAT,
YOU KNOW, THINGS COME TO AN END.
AND THAT’S SOMETHING I DON’T
LIKE TO THINK ABOUT IS THAT
THINGS COME TO AN END.
AND YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO LET
GO WHEN THEY COME TO THE END
AND TRUST THAT GOD HAS A PLAN.
HE WILL TURN THAT THING AROUND
AND MAKE IT FOR OUR GOOD.
BUT THANKING THOSE PEOPLE
THAT REJECT ME, LIKE,
AND NOT IN A SARCASTIC,
PETTY WAY.
BECAUSE AT FIRST,
I STARTED, I WAS LIKE,
“HEH, THANKS.”
YOU KNOW LIKE, “YOU’RE LOSS.”
YOU KNOW?
BUT THEN GOD, REALLY LIKE,
GOT IT IN MY HEART
WHERE I’M LIKE,
“NO, REALLY, I’M DIFFERENT,
I’M BETTER.”
JOYCE: I REMEMBER READING
IN A BOOK YEARS AGO,
AND IT REALLY MINISTERED
TO ME AT THE TIME AND IT’S KIND
OF WHAT YOU’RE TALKIN’ ABOUT.
IT SAID, “SOMEDAY, YOU’LL
REALIZE THAT WHAT YOU THOUGHT
WAS YOUR GREATEST ENEMY
WAS YOUR BEST FRIEND.”
AND THAT’S SO TRUE.
YOU KNOW, I LOOK BACK NOW,
AND ALL THE HARD, SO HARD,
HARD, HARD THINGS THAT I WENT
THROUGH THAT WERE REJECTION,
THEY BROUGHT ME CLOSER TO GOD.
I MEAN, I WAS FORCED.
IT’S EITHER GOD OR NOBODY.
AND I REMEMBER ONE DAY SAYING,
“WELL, GOD, I JUST DON’T
HAVE ANYBODY BUT YOU.”
HE SAID, “OH, POOR, JOYCE,
YOU’RE JUST STUCK WITH GOD.”
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: YOU’RE STUCK WITH
THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.
JOYCE: “POOR ME,
I DON’T HAVE ANYBODY, BUT GOD,
THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE.”
AND THAT DOESN’T MEAN
THAT I DON’T WANT FRIENDS
OR NEED FRIENDS, I DO.
BUT I’M GLAD THAT I DON’T HAVE
TO HAVE THAT TO FUNCTION.
AND I THINK THAT’S WHAT
YOU’RE TALKIN’ ABOUT,
AND I THINK IT’S SUCH A GREAT
POINT TO BRING OUT.
BECAUSE SO MANY THINGS,
THEY GET STARTED–
ESPECIALLY, ON SOCIAL MEDIA,
AND THEY GET STARTED AS–
YES, WE DO NEED PEOPLE
AND IT IS GREAT TO HAVE A GROUP.
BUT THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, NOW,
IF THAT GOES TOO FAR AND NOW,
I HAVE TO HAVE THAT TO BE HAPPY,
OR IF I DON’T HAVE THAT
BECAUSE GOD’S GOT SOME
SPECIALIZED PURPOSE FOR ME,
I DON’T HAVE THAT,
THEN I FEEL LIKE THERE’S
SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME,
THEN IT’S GOTTEN OUT OF BALANCE.
CHRIS: OH, ABSOLUTELY.
AND I THINK JESUS,
THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE, LIKE,
I AM REALLY CONCERNED
ABOUT ALL THIS LANGUAGE
ABOUT TRIBES AND GROUPS,
AND WHATEVER, NOW.
BECAUSE IT’S LIKE WE’RE
TRYING TO REPLACE–
IT’S JUST ANOTHER FORM
OF REPLACE–
AND THOSE PEOPLE,
WILL INEVITABLY LET YOU DOWN.
I MEAN, EVERY ONE
OF THE DISCIPLES,
WHERE WERE THEY WHEN JESUS
WAS HANGING ON THE CROSS?
I DON’T THINK ANYONE WAS THERE.
JOYCE: HIS TRIBE LEFT.
CHRIS: HIS TRIBE LEFT.
JOYCE: THAT’S KIND OF WHAT
HAPPENED TO ME,
MY TRIBE ALL LEFT.
CHRIS: AND SO,
EVEN THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE,
HE CONSTANTLY HAD, WELL,
LOTS OF TIMES WHERE
HE LEFT HIS TRIBE
TO BE JUST WITH THE FATHER,
OR TOOK A COUPLE FROM
HIS TRIBE WITH HIM.
SO, THERE ARE ALWAYS–
WE JUST GOT TO BE CAREFUL.
AND I KNOW IT TAKES TIME,
BECAUSE EVERY–
NOBODY WANTS TO BE REJECTED,
THAT’S THE WHOLE THING.
BUT SOMETIMES IT’S NOT EVEN
THE OTHER PERSON’S PROBLEM.
IT’S THAT WE WERE LOOKING
TO THEM FOR SOMETHING THAT
WE COULD ONLY EVER GET FROM GOD.
AND YOU WON’T KNOW–
I’M NOT SAYING THIS IS EASY.
LIKE, I’M NOT SAYING
THIS IS EASY.
BUT YOU WON’T KNOW THAT
YOU’RE ONLY GOING TO GET
IT FROM GOD UNTIL YOU DON’T
GET IT FROM THEM.
AND NORMALLY–
AND THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO THAT.
SOMETIMES, YOU SET
YOURSELF UP, I THINK THOUGH,
FOR UNNECESSARY REJECTION.
BECAUSE YOU DON’T NEED
TO PUT YOURSELF OUT THERE.
I THINK SOMETIMES,
WHAT I WATCH ON SOCIALS
AND PE–I’M LIKE,
“OH, MAN, YOU’RE JUST
DESPERATELY TRYING
TO GET ON THAT ACCOUNT,
OR HAVE THAT–”
AND YOU’RE SETTING YOURSELF
UP FOR A REJECTION BECAUSE
GOD ACTUALLY NEVER MEANT
YOU TO BE IN THAT PLACE.
OR SOMETIMES, IT REVEALS THAT
WE’RE CHASING SOMETHING
THAT WE WERE NEVER
MEANT TO CHASE.
IF WE GO, “I FEEL REJECTED FROM:
I DIDN’T GET THAT JOB,
OR I DIDN’T GET THAT PROMOTION,
OR I DIDN’T GET THAT GIG,
I DIDN’T GET–” WHATEVER
IT MIGHT BE; BUT MAYBE,
YOU WEREN’T ACTUALLY REJECTED.
YOU WERE NOT EVER SUPPOSED
TO HAVE THAT PLACE.
AND SO, IT CAN ALL GET LIKE,
A LITTLE BIT MESSY IS WHAT
I’M TRYING TO SAY,
IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THAT.
AND UNLESS, YOU HAVE THAT
PLACE WITH THE LORD,
WHERE ULTIMATELY,
YOUR ACCEPTANCE IS IN HIM,
AND IT SOUNDS GRANDIOSE–
AND I’M THINKING OF PEOPLE THAT
WOULD BE LISTENING TO THIS NOW,
THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH
A MARRIAGE FAILURE,
OR A FRIENDSHIP FAILURE
OR THEIR PARENT DIDN’T
WANT THEM; IF WE LIVE
IN A WORLD WHERE WE DON’T
GIVE PEOPLE HOPE IN CHRIST,
AND TO SAY, YOU ACTUALLY
CAN BE HEALED AND WHOLE,
THEN WE’VE GOT NOTHING MORE
TO OFFER THAN THE WORLD.
BECAUSE IN OUR CURRENT CULTURE–
AND I AM ALL ABOUT
TRAUMA THERAPY,
AND I’M ALL ABOUT
THINGS NEED TO BE CALLED OUT,
BUT I’M ALSO ALL ABOUT
JESUS CAN HEAL YOU,
AND JESUS CAN MEET YOU
IN THAT PLACE OF BROKENNESS,
AND JESUS CAN HEAL THAT
PLACE OF REJECTION.
BUT IT’S ALMOST LIKE WE KEEP
GOING AROUND THIS CYCLE
IN CURRENT CULTURE
THAT ALMOST SAYS,
“OKAY, I CAN–”
I’LL USE MY EXAMPLE,
WHEN MY MOTHER LEFT
ME IN A HOSPITAL,
AND THEN I WAS ABUSED,
AND THEN I WAS REJECTED
IN MY WORKPLACE,
AND THEN I WAS REJECTED
BY SOME PEOPLE IN MY CHURCH,
AND THEN I DIDN’T GET THAT
OPPORTUNITY–AND I COULD NOW
BE 55 DOING–NOT DOING WHAT
GOD’S CALLED ME TO DO,
BECAUSE I’M STILL SITTING
HERE BLAMING,
ALL OF THOSE REJECTION.
WERE ANY OF THEM, RIGHT?
NO.
COULD ALL OF THEM TAKEN ME OUT?
YES.
BUT WHAT DID MY SAVIOR COME FOR?
I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT I FEEL
LIKE THE MESSAGE
TO THIS GENERATION IS,
IS THAT WE ARE SO
OVER-IDENTIFYING,
WITH SOME THINGS THAT WE GO,
“I CAN RECOGNIZE IT,
BUT THERE IS AN ENEMY.
AT THE END OF THE DAY,
IT REALLY WASN’T EVEN
THAT PERSON, THERE IS AN ENEMY
THAT WANTS TO STEAL, KILL,
AND DESTROY MY PURPOSE.
JESUS CAME THAT
I MIGHT HAVE LIFE,
AND LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY,
AND TO DESTROY THE WORKS
OF THE ENEMY.
SO, I CAN WALK IN VICTORY,
DESPITE THE REJECTION THAT
I ENCOUNTER THIS SIDE
OF ETERNITY.”
AND THAT’S A MESSAGE–
THANK GOD FOR YOU,
‘CUZ YOU’RE PREACHING IT.
BUT THAT’S A MESSAGE THAT’S
NOT BEING SPOKEN ABOUT A LOT.
IT’S MORE LIKE,
“LET ME LIST ALL THE WAYS
I’VE BEEN REJECTED,
LET ME BLAME THAT,”
AND THEN IT’S ALMOST LIKE,
“I CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.”
THAT’S DESTRUCTIVE, I THINK.
GINGER: THAT’S WHY IT REALLY
DOES COME DOWN TO,
YOU HAVE TO HAVE
THAT FOUNDATION,
YOU HAVE TO HAVE
SOMETHING TO TRUST IN,
TO HOLD ONTO THAT
IS OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF,
THAT’S OUTSIDE OF PEOPLE.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT REJECTING,
REJECTION, RIGHT?
HOW TO NOT LET IT GET
THOSE DEEP ROOTS.
BUT THERE ARE
THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE
NO FAMILIARITY WITH THEIR–
WHO THEY ARE IN CHRIST,
THEIR VALUE IN CHRIST.
THEY MAY EVEN FEEL
REJECTED BY CHRIST.
SO, LET’S TALK ABOUT
THAT A LITTLE.
HOW DO WE GET THAT FOUNDATION,
THAT NO MATTER WHAT
SOMEBODY DOES TO ME,
I CAN COME BACK HERE WHERE
I’M ACCEPTED AND LOVED AND
ALWAYS, ALWAYS–
WELL, WILL NEVER,
EVER BE REJECTED.
HOW ABOUT THAT?
JAI: IN SOME OF MY DARKEST
TIMES, I HONESTLY,
I WENT REAL BASIC, RIGHT?
BECAUSE I DO HAVE MY PEOPLE NOW,
BUT MY PEOPLE–I DON’T NEED
THEM ALL THE TIME.
YOU KNOW, I’LL REACH OUT
AND SOMETIMES, I’LL SAY,
“HEY, PRAY.”
I DON’T NECESSARILY NEED
TO TELL THEM EVERYTHING.
AND THAT’S THE THING,
I’VE REDEFINED WHAT THAT
RELATIONSHIP IS AND WHAT I NEED.
AND I THINK THAT’S
THE DIFFERENCE FROM WHEN
I WAS YOUNGER AND JUST
WANTED BESTIES TO TELL
ALL MY BUSINESS WITH,
AND CACKLE WITH.
LIKE, I DON’T NEED THAT ANYMORE,
I NEED FOLKS THAT’LL PRAY.
BECAUSE MY HEALING THROUGH
THIS PROCESS HAS, I BELIEVE,
HAS BEEN ALMOST HYPER SPED,
BECAUSE MY PEOPLE,
POINT ME TO HIM.
MY PEOPLE POINT ME TO JESUS.
LIKE, AND SO, HONESTLY,
THE SIMPLEST THING THAT I DO,
A LOT OF TIMES WHEN
I FEEL THAT REJECTION,
I JUST START SINGING
THE OLD SONG,
“YES, JESUS LOVES ME.”
BECAUSE IT’S REALLY,
IT’S JUST–IT’S SO SIMPLE.
IT’S SO SIMPLE.
BUT I’M LIKE,
“IF THEY DON’T LIKE ME,
IF THEY DON’T LOVE ME,
JESUS LOVES ME.”
AND THAT’S HARD BECAUSE IT HURTS
WHEN YOU GET REJECTED
BY PEOPLE THAT YOU TRUSTED,
OR PEOPLE THAT YOU LOVED,
OR THAT YOU THOUGHT LIKE–
EVEN THE AFFAIR THAT HAPPENED
WAS WITH A FRIEND, YOU KNOW,
SO IT WAS A DOUBLE
BETRAYAL FOR ME.
AND SO, IT’S LIKE–BUT I HAD
TO BE LIKE,
“GOD, BLESS THEM.
JESUS, YOU KNOW YOU LOVE ME.”
BUT I DO START SINGING
THAT SONG,
“YES, JESUS, LOVES ME.”
BACK TO THE BASICS OF WHAT
I LEARNED IN SUNDAY SCHOOL.
“BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO.”
AND SO, IT’S SIMPLE,
BUT IT’S AWAY–
CHRIS: AND WE’VE GOT JEHRA,
NOW.
WE CAN SING THAT.
JAI: WE CAN SING THAT.
ERIN: THAT’S A GOOD ONE.
WHEN I WAS–LAST YEAR, WHEN
I WENT THROUGH SOME REJECTION.
I COULD FEEL THAT–
I COULD FEEL MYSELF,
SWOOPING DOWN TO THAT
EIGHTH-GRADE GIRL–
I DON’T LIKE WHERE SHE GOES.
SO, WHEN I FEEL THAT–GOING
TO THAT PLACE,
MY FIRST THING TOO,
IS TO RUN TO MY BIBLE.
LIKE, I COULD NOT
GET THERE, FASTER.
I PUT THE KIDS TO BED,
AND I WENT STRAIGHT
TO THE WORD AND I CRIED,
BUT I JOURNALED, AND I WROTE
DOWN THOSE SAME THINGS.
“I AM FEARFULLY
AND WONDERFULLY MADE.
I AM CHOSEN.
I AM LOVED.
I AM WANTED.”
AND LOOKING UP THOSE SCRIPTURES.
BASIC, BUT I COULD NOT GET
TO THAT WORD FAST ENOUGH
JUST TO BURY MYSELF THERE.
JOYCE: WELL, AND SEE,
YOU’VE LEARNED THAT THROUGH
HAVING TO LEARN THAT.
ERIN: YES, YEAH,
THAT’S SO TRUE.
JOYCE: AND I THINK
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION,
“HOW DO WE GET THERE
TO WHERE WE HAVE THAT
FOUNDATION IN CHRIST?”
I DON’T MEAN TO SOUND
LIKE I’M JUST, YOU KNOW,
ALL FOR PAIN,
BUT I THINK SOMETIMES,
YOU HAVE TO COME TO A CRISIS
POINT IN YOUR LIFE.
IT’S LIKE, MOST OF US ARE NOT
GONNA GIVE IT UP UNTIL IT’S
STRIPPED AWAY FROM US.
AND THEN, YOU HIT–THEN YOU’RE
AT A CRISIS POINT.
YOU HAVE ONE,
OF TWO THINGS TO DO;
YOU’RE GOING TO EITHER
GO TO CHRIST AND MAKE HIM
YOUR NUMBER ONE FRIEND,
OR YOU’RE GOING TO BE BITTER
AND RESENTFUL, AND HAVE A CHIP
ON YOUR SHOULDER, ALL YOUR LIFE,
AND YOU’RE GOING
TO HAVE A LOUSY,
STINKING, MISERABLE LIFE.
IT’S UP TO YOU.
ERIN: I THINK SOME
OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL
MOMENTS I’VE EVER HAD WITH
JESUS IS BECAUSE OF THE PAIN,
I EXPERIENCED.
BECAUSE OF THAT REJECTION,
IN THAT MOMENT, I CHOSE HIM.
AND SO, I HAVE NEVER HAD SUCH
A SWEETER TIME THAN IN THOSE
MOMENTS WITH HIM,
WHERE HE SPOKE TO ME IN A WAY
THAT ONLY HE KNEW WHAT
I WAS EXPERIENCING.
AND HAD I GONE THE OTHER WAY;
I WOULD HAVE MISSED IT.
JOYCE: OKAY, THIS IS REALLY
GOING TO SOUND CRAZY.
WHEN GOD WAS DEALING WITH
ME SO STRONGLY FOR,
I DON’T KNOW, IT WAS PROBABLY
FIVE OR SIX YEARS.
I MEAN, I JUST FELT LIKE
IT WAS JUST ONE THING,
AFTER ANOTHER, AFTER ANOTHER,
AFTER ANOTHER, I JUST FELT LIKE
I WAS HURTING ALL THE TIME.
WHEN GOD GOT DONE WITH SOME
OF THE STUFF HE WAS DOING,
AND I DIDN’T HAVE THAT
SO MUCH ANYMORE,
I ACTUALLY MISSED THAT PAIN.
ERIN: I TOTALLY GET THAT.
JOYCE: BECAUSE THAT–
GINGER: IT SEEMED NORMAL?
JOYCE: WELL, NO, I THINK IT–
IT BECAME LIKE SOMETHING,
I KNEW IT WAS GOD WORKING IN ME,
AND IT JUST BECAME SOMETHING
THAT I LOVED KNOWING THAT
HE CARED ENOUGH ABOUT ME
TO NOT LEAVE ME THE WAY I WAS.
ERIN: AND YOU EXPERIENCED
THE NEARNESS OF GOD SO MUCH.
JOYCE: YEAH, BUT TO WORK–
YEAH, AND I ACTUALLY GOT
TO THE POINT WHERE I MISSED IT.
IT’S LIKE, “ISN’T THERE ANYTHING
WRONG WITH ME ANYMORE?”
[LADIES LAUGHING]
JOYCE: OH YEAH, PLENTY.
BUT–
GINGER: NO, THAT’S HUGE.
THAT SAYS SO MUCH.
JOYCE: PROBABLY SOME
PEOPLE ARE AT HOME GOING,
“WHAT IS SHE TALKING ABOUT?”
GINGER: IT SAYS SO MUCH ABOUT
WHO GOD IS AND HOW MUCH
HE LOVES YOU, THAT HE CAN
DO THAT IN OUR LIFE,
BECAUSE YOU’RE RIGHT
ON THE SURFACE, UH-UH,
NOBODY WANTS THAT.
I’VE MADE THE MISTAKE
OF FEELING REJECTED
BY GOD AT TIMES BECAUSE
OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE
HAPPENED IN MY LIFE.
YOU KNOW, BLAMING HIM FOR IT,
AND THINKING, “WHY ARE YOU
LETTING THIS HAPPEN?
DO YOU NOT LOVE ME?”
AND EVEN THROUGH THAT PUSHING
THROUGH IT AND REALIZING
THAT HE’S STILL THERE,
WAITING FOR ME TO COME
BACK AFTER I THREW A LITTLE
CHILDISH FIT AT HIM.
BUT HE’S STILL THERE,
LOVING ME.
SO, THEN, YOU REALIZE,
“OKAY, EVEN WHEN I THOUGHT THESE
THINGS THAT WERE SO WRONG,
THAT GOD IS STILL RIGHT THERE.
I CAN COME BACK,
I CAN TURN TO HIM,
AND HE STILL WANTS TO PUT HIS
HAND ON THE BACK OF MY HAIR,
AND SAY, ‘I LOVE YOU,
LAY YOUR HEAD DOWN RIGHT HERE.
I’M NOT MAD AT YOU.'”
THAT’S BEEN HUGE FOR ME.
CHRIS: AND I WOULD SAY THAT’S
HUGE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE
THAT IN MANY, MANY WAYS,
OUR WHOLE VIEW OF GOD–
AND YOU DON’T KNOW,
YOU’VE GOT IT.
BUT YOU HOLD THIS OFFENSE
AT GOD BECAUSE SAY
SOMEONE BETRAYED YOU,
OR SOMEONE DID SOMETHING.
YOU’VE SO…
AND I THINK, I OFTEN THINK BACK
TO WHEN I WAS BEING ABUSED,
YOU KIND OF THINK,
“WELL, IF YOU ARE A GOOD GOD,
YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED THAT.”
AND SO THE SAME WITH REJECTION.
“IF YOU ARE A GOOD GOD,
MY HUSBAND WOULDN’T OF HAD
AN AFFAIR, OR YOU KNOW,
YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED
THOSE THINGS.”
AND I THINK PEOPLE LISTENING
TO THIS–SOMETIMES WE DON’T
WANT TO SAY IT OUT LOUD,
BECAUSE YOU–
I MEAN, IT’S A SERIOUS THING.
BUT WE’VE ALL BEEN THERE.
SO, THIS MIGHT HELP SET
SOMEONE FREE.
AND I HAD TO–I WENT THROUGH
A SEASON,
AS I WAS GOING THROUGH,
YET ANOTHER LAYER OF HEALING
THROUGH REJECTION,
WHERE I HAD TO GO,
“OKAY, CHRIS WHAT IS IT THAT
YOU BELIEVE ABOUT GOD?”
AND I HAD TO OWN
THE FACT THAT I THOUGHT,
“I DO BELIEVE YOU
LOVE EVERYONE ELSE.
I JUST DON’T THINK YOU MUST
REALLY LOVE–THERE MUST
BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH
ME THAT–BECAUSE YOU ALLOWED
THESE THINGS TO HAPPEN.”
AND THEN I–THERE’S
SEVERAL SCRIPTURES.
BUT I WOULD WRITE THEM DOWN.
BUT NOT ABOUT EVEN
GOD’S LOVE FOR ME,
BUT ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT SAYS
THAT “GOD IS LIGHT.
AND IN HIM,
THERE IS NO DARKNESS.”
NOW, I HAD TO SIT WITH THAT
FOR MONTHS TO GO–
UNTIL I GOT IT INTO MY HEART,
“GOD HAS NO DARK SIDE.”
SO HE’S NOT UP THERE,
LETTING PEOPLE REJECT
ME OR HURT ME, BECAUSE,
YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW THERE’S
SOMETHING SO FUNDAMENTALLY
WRONG WITH ME,
THAT I NEED TO BE ABUSED,
OR HURT, OR REJECTED.
BUT TO EVEN WORK ON THAT
AND GO, “OKAY, NO MATTER WHAT
THAT PERSON DID TO ME,
OR SAID ABOUT ME, OR DID,
CHRISTINE, YOU’VE GOTTA
BELIEVE THAT GOD IS LIGHT,
AND IN HIM, THERE IS–
GOD HAS NO DARK SIDE.
SO, THERE’S NOTHING IN HIM.
THAT’S GONNA WANT TO HURT YOU.”
OR PSALM 119, “GOD IS GOOD,
AND GOD DOES GOOD.”
AND I WOULD WRITE THESE
THINGS DOWN AND GO,
“SO CHRIS, WHAT IS IT THAT
YOU BELIEVE ABOUT GOD?”
AND I HAD TO UNTANGLE
SOME OF MY–
AND I DON’T KNOW WHETHER
IT WAS REJECTION AT BIRTH,
OR ABUSE, OR JUST LIFE,
OR SOCIAL MEDIA WHERE YOU–
YOU BELIEVE A BUNCH OF LIES.
YOU ACT THEM OUT THROUGH PEOPLE,
LIKE YOU TAKE IT OUT,
“YOU REJECTED ME, YOU HURT ME,”
BUT THIS IS THE BOTTOM OF–
BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT GONNA
GO TO A GOD TO GET ACCEPTANCE,
IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT
GOD IS ACTUALLY GOOD,
OR IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT–
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I’M SAYING?
JOYCE: OH YEAH,
I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT
YOU’RE SAYING.
SO, NOW YOU WANT ME TO FINISH
WHAT YOU’RE SAYING.
[LADIES LAUGHING]
GINGER: TAG TEAM.
JOYCE: I THINK ONE
OF THE BIGGEST MISTAKES
THAT PEOPLE MAKE,
AND THIS RELATES TO WHAT
YOU’RE SAYING IS WE ALWAYS
EQUATE PAIN AS BEING BAD.
AND IT’S NOT.
YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES
IT’S AN ACT OF LOVE.
NOW, GOD DOESN’T MAKE PEOPLE
MEAN SO THEY’LL HURT US,
BUT HE WILL USE THEM
TO MAKE YOU BETTER.
SO, THAT’S WHY AS STUPID
AS IT SOUNDS, I CAN SAY,
NOW, “I’M NOT REALLY SORRY
THAT I WAS SEXUALLY
ABUSED BY MY DAD.
BECAUSE IT’S MADE ME WHO I AM.”
AND SO, I REALIZE NOW–
I MEAN, I PRAYED FOR
MY DAD TO DIE.
I PRAYED FOR MY MOTHER
TO LEAVE HIM.
I MEAN, I PRAYED FOR GOD TO GET
ME OUT OF THAT SITUATION.
AND OF COURSE, I HAD TO COME
TO THE POINT OF SAYING,
“WELL, WHY DIDN’T YOU?”
YOU KNOW, “WHY–YOU COULD HAVE.”
YOU KNOW, “WHY DO YOU
LET SOMEBODY THAT MEAN,
LIVE THAT LONG AND HURT
THAT MANY PEOPLE?”
YOU KNOW, WELL, GOD DIDN’T
GET ME OUT OF IT.
BUT ACTUALLY, HE DID
SOMETHING GREATER,
HE BROUGHT ME THROUGH IT,
AND A STRONG PERSON,
THAT COULD DO WHAT
I’VE DONE ALL THESE YEARS.
AND I THINK,
WHAT I’VE I REALIZED EVEN
WITH MY OWN KIDS,
I HAD A HARD TIME
LETTING MY KIDS SUFFER,
BECAUSE I WENT THROUGH SO MUCH.
AND SO, I’M VERY GUILTY
OF HAVING DELIVERED THEM
FROM THINGS THAT I SHOULD
HAVE BACKED OFF,
AND LET THEM GO THROUGH.
AND WE THINK LOVE
IS TO ALWAYS DELIVER PEOPLE
FROM ANYTHING THAT HURTS.
BUT IT REALLY, IT’S NOT.
I MEAN, I HEARD–
I WAS LISTENING TO A PREACHER
THIS MORNING AND HE SAID,
“IF YOU LOVE ME,
AND YOU SEE ME SLIDING
IN THE WRONG DIRECTION,
AND YOU DON’T GET IN MY FACE
AND CONFRONT ME,
THEN YOU DO NOT LOVE ME.”
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
TO BE WILLING SOMETIMES,
TO LET PEOPLE GO THROUGH THINGS,
OR THEY’LL NEVER GET FREE.
WE JUST KEEP ENABLING THEM
TO DO THE SAME THING OVER,
AND OVER, AND OVER.
SO, THE THING IS, I THINK
AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION,
“GOD, WHY DO YOU
LET THIS HAPPEN,
WHY DO YOU LET THIS HAPPEN?”
ALL PAIN IS NOT BAD.
I MEAN, SOME OF THE PAIN THAT
YOU WENT THROUGH EVEN
IN SITUATIONS THAT I’M AWARE OF,
THAT I WENT THROUGH SIMILAR
SITUATIONS AND, YOU KNOW,
WE THINK, “GOD, WHY AFTER WHAT
I WENT THROUGH AS A KID,
WHY ARE YOU LETTING
THIS HAPPEN TO ME NOW.”
BUT LIKE YOU SAID BEFORE,
WE’RE TRYING TO GET
SOMETHING FROM THOSE PEOPLE
THAT GOD–ONLY GOD CAN GIVE US.
AND SO, I REMEMBER A SITUATION,
AND THIS–TO ME,
THIS EXPLAINS IT.
A WOMAN THAT USED
TO COME TO MY MEETINGS,
SOMEBODY TOLD ME THAT
SHE WAS REALLY HURT
BECAUSE I NEVER SPOKE TO HER.
AND I WENT TO GOD, AND I SAID,
“I DON’T WANT TO HURT HER.
WELL, I DON’T EVEN
REMEMBER SEEING HER.”
AND GOD SAID,
“I HID HER FROM YOU
BECAUSE I DIDN’T WANT
HER TO GET FROM YOU,
WHAT SHE NEEDED TO COME
TO ME AND GET.”
LADIES: WOW.
JOYCE: AND SO,
HOW MANY TIMES IS GOD–
YOU KNOW, WE WANT SOMEBODY,
“DO THIS FOR ME, BE NICE TO ME,
TELL ME WHAT TO DO,
SHOW ME WHAT TO DO.”
AND GOD’S SAYING, “NOPE,
THEY’RE GONNA HAVE
TO GO THROUGH THIS
IN ORDER TO GET IT FROM ME.”
SO, WE’RE GOING A LITTLE
DEEP HERE, I DON’T KNOW…
GINGER: THIS IS GOOD STUFF.
JOYCE: IF PEOPLE ARE LOSING
US OR STAYING WITH US.
GINGER: THIS IS SUCH
GOOD STUFF.
YOU GOTTA GO DEEP TO FIX THIS.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO GO DEEP
TO PULL THOSE ROOTS
OF REJECTION OUT.
JOYCE: AND LIKE CHRIS SAID,
YOU HAVE TO KNOW, I MEAN THAT,
YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW,
THAT GOD IS GOOD
AND THAT HE LOVES YOU.
AND I TRUST HIM AND HE’S NOT
GONNA LET ANYTHING HAPPEN TO ME,
THAT IS GONNA ULTIMATELY,
BE TO MY DETRIMENT.
I MAY HURT AND GO THROUGH
SOME THINGS,
BUT IF HE’S ALLOWING THAT,
IT’S FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING
TO SOMETHING IN MY LIFE,
THAT I AM TOTALLY BLIND TO THAT
HE WANTS TO GET IN THERE
AND HEAL AND MAKE WELL.
JAI: I REMEMBER FEELING
SO REJECTED BY GOD DURING
THE BEGINNING STAGES
OF WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH.
AND I WAS LIKE, “GOD HOW COULD
YOU ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN?”
AND HE JUST–
HE REALLY WENT THROUGH
A WHOLE SCENARIO LIKE,
“DIDN’T YOU ALLOW YOUR DAUGHTER
TO DO SOMETHING THAT YOU
REALLY DIDN’T AGREE WITH,
BUT YOU ALLOWED HER
TO DO SOMETHING?”
AND I WAS LIKE, “I DID.”
HE’S LIKE, “I HAVE FREE WILL
FOR HIM AND I CAN’T GO AGAINST
THAT FOR HIM AS WELL.”
HE’S LIKE–AND SO THEN,
I SAW THIS VISION OF GOD LIKE,
ALMOST PULLING MY EX-HUSBAND’S
SHIRT WHEN HE WAS GOING.
LIKE, I GOT THIS LIKE,
VISUAL OF HIM, LIKE,
PULLING HIS SHIRT, LIKE,
TO NOT GO CERTAIN PLACES.
AND HE’S LIKE,
“I WANTED HIM TO STOP.”
AND THAT JUST BLESSED ME.
AND THEN, IMMEDIATELY,
FOLLOWING THAT I STARTED–
I LISTENED TO A SERMON ABOUT
WHEN THE DISCIPLES WERE
IN THE BOAT AND IT WAS ROCKING,
AND THEY WERE GOING
THROUGH THE STORM.
AND THEY WERE UPSET WITH JESUS
BECAUSE THEY WERE LIKE,
“YOU’RE ON A PILLOW.”
I DON’T KNOW WHERE
HE GOT THE PILLOW FROM.
HE WAS ON A PILLOW.
GINGER: IT WAS A BOAT PILLOW.
JAI: HE HAD A BOAT PILLOW
AND HE WAS KNOCKED OUT
DURING THE STORM.
AND THE THING THAT GOT ME,
THAT I JUST–IT JUST
RESONATED WITH ME,
THEY WERE JUST LIKE,
“DO YOU CARE ABOUT US?”
LIKE, THEY ACTUALLY ASK HIM
LIKE, “DO YOU EVEN CARE?”
AND SO, I JUST REMEMBER
THAT FEELING OF REJECTION
THAT I HAD WITH GOD.
‘CUZ I WAS LIKE, “ME AND GOD,
WE BEEFING RIGHT NOW,”
LIKE, MY FRIENDS WOULD ASK ME.
LIKE, “WE’RE GOING THROUGH IT.”
BUT THEN, HE LOVED ME,
HIS KINDNESS AND HE LOVED
ME SO MUCH THROUGH IT THAT,
THAT TENSION, THAT MOMENT
OF ME BEING HONEST WITH HIM,
HAS JUST DRAWN ME SO MUCH
CLOSER TO HIM.
AND BECAUSE I NEEDED THAT
ISOLATION–AND THAT’S WHY
2020 WAS ACTUALLY,
KIND OF GOOD FOR ME.
AND AT THE TIME, I EVEN,
I RESIGNED FROM MY MINISTRY JOB.
I JUST STEPPED AWAY FOR A MINUTE
JUST BECAUSE I NEEDED
TO NOT DO ALL THE TIME.
I DIDN’T NEED TO LIKE,
LEAD PEOPLE INTO WORSHIP.
HONEY, I NEED TO WORSHIP
MY OWN BATHROOM, AND CRY,
YOU KNOW?
AND JUST CONNECT WITH GOD.
AND SO, 2020 WAS GOOD–
IT WAS BAD IN A LOT OF WAYS,
BUT IT WAS GOOD FOR
ME BECAUSE IT ISOLATED
ME SPIRITUALLY, TOO.
SO, THAT I CAN RECONNECT
WITH GOD AND NOT RELY
ON COMMUNITY GROUPS,
SMALL GROUPS, THIS GROUP,
THAT GROUP.
I’M NOT SAYING THOSE ARE
BAD BECAUSE I LOVE ‘EM.
BUT I’M SAYING, I DIDN’T THRIVE
OFF OF RUNNING THINGS
THROUGH THEM.
I HAD TO GO CONNECT TO GOD.
JOYCE: YOU SAID SOMETHING
THAT’S REALLY IMPORTANT.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR
VIEWING AUDIENCE DOESN’T MISS.
YOU SAID THAT GOD WOULDN’T
GO AGAINST HIS FREE WILL,
YOUR HUSBAND’S FREE WILL.
EVEN THOUGH WHAT HE WAS DOING
WAS WRONG AND BAD AND YOU
WERE PRAYING FOR IT TO CHANGE,
AND SOMETHING THAT HAS
REALLY HELPED ME IS TO LEARN
THAT ANYTIME WE’RE PRAYING
FOR SOMEBODY ELSE,
TO DO OR NOT TO DO SOMETHING,
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT GOD’S
NOT GONNA GO AGAINST THEIR FREE
WILL TO ANSWER OUR PRAYER.
JAI: YEAH, THAT’S WHAT
HE SAID, YEAH.
JOYCE: AND SO, YOU KNOW,
JUST BECAUSE I PRAY FOR
THIS PERSON TO CHANGE
AND THEY DON’T CHANGE,
OR I PRAY FOR THEM
TO DO SOMETHING
AND THEY DON’T DO IT,
THAT DOESN’T MEAN
THAT GOD’S NOT GOD.
IT DOESN’T MEAN HE WANTS
ME TO KEEP GOING THROUGH THAT.
BUT IT JUST MEANS HE’S NOT
GONNA MAKE THAT PERSON,
MAKE ME FEEL GOOD.
THAT’S WHY YOU GOT
TO KNOW HOW TO–
AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
I KNOW, THAT I KNOW,
THAT I KNOW, JAI,
EVEN THOUGH WHAT YOU WENT
THROUGH, WAS PURE HELL,
YOU WILL BE A MUCH BETTER
PERSON WHEN YOU COME OUT
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS.
AND YOU’RE JUST ABOUT THERE.
BUT YOU’RE GONNA BE STRONGER.
YOU’LL BE BETTER.
YOU’LL BE MORE SENSITIVE
TO OTHER PEOPLE’S PAIN.
YOU KNOW, YOU’RE GONNA
KNOW THINGS ABOUT GOD
YOU DIDN’T KNOW BEFORE.
AND GOD DOESN’T DO BAD THINGS,
BUT HE DOES WORK ALL THINGS
OUT FOR OUR GOOD,
IF WE LOVE HIM AND TRUST HIM.
GINGER: I THINK THERE ARE
SO MANY PEOPLE, RIGHT NOW,
WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE A COMPLETE
CHANGE IN THEIR LIFE,
A REVELATION, THROUGH SOMETHING
THAT WAS SAID,
THROUGH WHAT JOYCE,
JUST SAID TO JAI,
WHATEVER IT MAY BE,
BUT I REALLY BELIEVE SOME
OF THOSE ROOTS ARE
COMING OUT TODAY.
SO, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.
JOYCE: WELL, WE NEED
TO PRAY FOR PEOPLE.
GINGER: I LOVE THAT,
ABSOLUTELY.
JOYCE: FATHER,
WE PRAY FOR EVERYBODY
WATCHING TODAY AND, YES,
THEY CAN BE HELPED
BY WHAT WE’VE SAID,
BUT YOU’RE THE ONLY ONE NOW,
THAT CAN TAKE THEM
AND TAKE THIS,
AND DO WHAT YOU WANT
TO DO WITH IT IN THEIR LIFE.
AND SO, I PRAY THAT EVERY PERSON
WOULD BE REALLY OPEN TO YOU,
AND JUST PRAY THAT PRAYER,
“GOD, DO WHATEVER YOU
NEED TO DO IN MY LIFE,
EVEN IF IT HURTS, AND CHANGE ME,
AND MAKE ME WHAT YOU
WANT ME TO BE.
AND I PRAY THAT NOBODY WHO’S
HEARING OR WATCHING THIS,
WHO IS CONVICTED BY IT AND KNOWS
THAT THERE’S SOMETHING THEY
NEED TO DEAL WITH,
WILL JUST PUSH IT DOWN
ONE MORE TIME,
AND TRY TO IGNORE IT;
LET THIS BE THE TIME
THAT THEY SAY,
“NO MORE TRIPS AROUND
THE MOUNTAIN, GOD.
I WANT TO BE FREE,”
IN JESUS’ NAME, AMEN.
LADIES: AMEN.
GINGER: THANK YOU
ALL VERY MUCH.
AND TODAY, YOU’VE BEEN HURT,
YOU’VE BEEN REJECTED,
BUT HOLD ON TO THAT LOVING HAND,
THAT GOD IS HOLDING OUT TO YOU.
HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU;
HE WILL NEVER REJECT YOU;
HE WILL NEVER TURN
HIS BACK ON YOU.
AND IF YOU CAN JUST GIVE
A LITTLE BIT MOTION TOWARD HIM,
THEN HE’S RIGHT THERE WAITING
TO MEET YOU PART WAY.
SO, THAT IS OUR HOPE
AND OUR PRAYER FOR YOU.
AND WE LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH.
WE HAVE A FREE RESOURCE
AVAILABLE FOR YOU ‘CUZ
IT’S GETTING INTO GOD’S WORD
THAT REALLY HELPS MAKE ALL
THIS REAL IN OUR LIFE AND HELPS
US TO CHANGE THE WAY THAT
WE’RE THINKING ABOUT THINGS.
SO, WE HAVE A FREE BOOKLET
THAT YOU CAN DOWNLOAD CALLED,
“OVERCOMING REJECTION.”
YOU CAN GET
IT AT JOYCEMEYER.ORG/TALKITOUT.
AND WHILE YOU’RE THERE,
YOU MIGHT AS WELL
GO AHEAD AND SIGN UP FOR
OUR FRIEND’S LIST.
THAT WAY YOU CAN GET ALL THE FUN
THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING
HERE ON THE PODCAST,
AND YOU CAN CATCH
UP ON OTHER PODCASTS AS WELL.
CHRIS, THANKS A LOT FOR
BEING HERE WITH US, TOO!
CHRIS: MAN, THIS IS AN HONOR.
WE’VE GOTTA DO THIS AGAIN.
GINGER: IT’S BEEN SO FUN.
WE WOULD LOVE TO;
WE’LL TAKE YOU UP ON IT.
AND WE WILL SEE YOU
ALL NEXT TIME.
BYE BYE, BYE, BYE.
[MUSIC]