Today, the stunning Michelle Williams (yes, from Destiny’s Child—we’re fangirling just a tad over here!!) is here and shares some of her most practical tips and inspiration from her own journey of encountering, fighting and overcoming depression. She and the girls unpack a lot of the nitty-gritty questions and details of how you can start on the road to recovery from depression—and even how to help a loved one who’s fighting that battle themselves.

yeah why is it so easy for us to have

these negative thoughts about ourselves

it is

when we know that sitting here right now

we know those are all

lies but we sit now if you just want to

use that as an excuse to eat some good

old cream cheese brownies

go for it

[Music]

hi everyone come on in here we’ve been

waiting for you this is joyce meyer’s

talk it out podcast

where joyce teaches the word of god in

her wonderful practical no-nonsense way

and my friends and i talk about the real

stuff of living it

and we do not hold anything back i’m

gingerstockie

with my beautiful friends jay and erin

cluley

three friends who are all in different

stages of life

sometimes i highlight very and that

makes me feel really old

very very different stages because i’m

really old

i’m not gonna do that anymore but we do

understand the importance of having

loving honest

women around you and when we need a

little help we call it miss joyce

and we just realized that sometimes you

gotta talk about life with your

girlfriends so consider yourself one of

us and let’s talk it out

someone sent me a message about

something we should talk about on the

podcast oh yeah

it was a good one but i responded and

said just just so you know like it’ll be

a really honest conversation

because that’s what we do i know so

throw me your ideas and then you just

wait and see what happens

i like diving just so you know

prerequisite for this conversation a

little warning don’t suggest

anything right you don’t want to deep

dive in right exactly

well speaking of deep dive i just want

to share with all of

you guys out there and you too i

have not eaten pork

[Laughter]

i know that you’re sharing this what’s

gonna happen it is important

to me it’s important is that what you

smell

left out at every event is it the bacon

yes you even make it you thought that

you were even like at our last thing

when we

came over your house you thought we out

you were doing something nice to be like

jay i really think you’re gonna like

these ham cubes i’m like ginger

i haven’t eaten ham or pork in eight

years but i gave in and it’s because i

misread

a text and i thought you specifically

asked for it i don’t know what’s

happening i thought you were joking i

was like

what is it yeah but i gave in and i ate

pork this weekend

how you feeling great my stomach kind of

did this sound like

but that was like what’s gonna happen

yeah i was like oh but it didn’t work

and then we’re back we’re good thank you

for sharing that i thought it was

important

you know we talk about the real stuff

and hold nothing back

right i eat bacon now so i’m really glad

about this yeah i know i feel like i

leave for you

so i can party and and and fellowship

better with you guys

i’m happy now bring on the pepperoni i

did not mean

for the little bits of damn that i made

you stirred up a lot

of your life but it was like i wanted to

taste it

you don’t cook often so the fact that

you made them

you know how much i loved you i felt the

love and i’ve just felt like i

cried for you

yeah well we’re really excited because

we have a guest today with us that you

are going to love

and we’re also talking about a topic

that is

so very important and i think often

brushed over in the church and i think

we’ll talk about that too

but um we are going to have someone with

us who

dealt with depression a lot of her life

and really felt like fame and fortune

and success might help take care of it

she found out just the opposite and

michelle williams is a friend of jays

but she is also well known for many many

things you know michelle from everywhere

right she writes she’s written books

she’s an author she’s a podcast host

um she rose to fame in the most famous

girl

group of all time destiny’s child she is

going to be here with us to talk about

her

bout with depression and most

importantly the freedom that she’s

finding in christ and

something that that we can all relate to

in one way or another and

aaron’s totally fangirling i didn’t want

to say anything when i walked in but

i’m so glad i got this seat because

she’s like right next to me

i’m not getting so cool and i’m going to

look over and karen will just be like

rubbing her hair hey michelle well let

me let me just say this like michelle

williams i’ve i’ve been

a fan girl for years just because of the

music and i’ve seen her from afar

um loved her music love what she’s done

with the group but also when she pivoted

and did gospel music like

that was huge for her to step out and do

that so

i’ve been a fan from afar but what

really connected me to her

um was when um we went i went on a

retreat after you guys know what what

i’ve been going through over the past

couple years with the

the affair and the the divorce and all

that stuff but um

her transparency at a retreat that i

went to is really what made me just

fall in love with her i’m just grateful

that she’s here and sharing her story

that’s really cool

yeah and that’s what we really want to

help other people understand today is

there’s no reason

to have shame or to hide our pain

and yeah it doesn’t mean we need to air

it everywhere right

we have to be careful with what we’re

doing but there should not be

shame especially in the church about

dealing with these things

so she’s going to be coming we’re going

to be talking about it um

we’re going to of course start with a

little bit of god’s word and we’re going

to see

what joyce has to say about what this

kind of

pit feels like when you’re dealing with

depression so let’s listen and then

we’ll bring on our special guest

you know we all have times in our life

when we get disappointed and the answer

to being disappointed is to get

reappointed

we all have times when we’re discouraged

but the answer is to then

find a way to be encouraged

just like light always overcomes

darkness positive things

always overcome negative things

now there’s a little place that the

devil wants us to live in called the pit

anybody know about the pit the pit of

depression

the pit of discouragement the pit of

fear

anger whatever it might be

well what is a pit it’s a sunken place

a low place a dark and an unpleasant

place i believe self-pity is a pit

there’s nothing worse than spending a

whole day sitting around in a half dark

room feeling sorry for yourself

it’s terrible it’s certainly not a place

that god wants us to be in and it’s

certainly not a place that jesus died

for us

to live in joseph’s brothers threw him

into a pit and he ended up in the palace

so he must have found some way to get

out of that pit

and you may be in a place like that

right now maybe some of you watching by

television you

think you accidentally turned this

program on just flipping through the

channels and

you’re sitting in a pit of depression or

fear or

anger and it’s no accident that you’ve

joined us god is going to show you

through his word how you can get out of

that pit

now we pray for god to get us out of

places we don’t want to be in but to be

honest

it’s not all about prayer i found out

many times when we pray and ask god to

do something for us he

shows us what we need to do i’m going to

say that again just to make sure you got

it

a lot of times when we ask god to do

something for

us instead of just magically doing it

for

us he shows us what we need to do

to change that thing in our life

that is a huge statement it’s huge and

michelle

thank you so much for being with us it’s

so fun to have you it

is so fun to be with y’all today i know

we’re talking about a heavy topic but

i’ve been hanging out with y’all for a

little while today

and you guys are just a fun bunch

i just want to see this on like

mainstream like

tv where’s the network come on come on

it was funny we were getting ready and

michelle said does joyce know what goes

on here

and yeah she does she’s part of it she

always tells

just a great fun spirit

um that’s uh in here so get that right

in yeah we’re glad you’re one of the

girls yeah

i feel like it already i want to jump

into what she said about

we want god to take our pain right we

want him to

just lift us up out of that pit and so

many times

it’s more like a ladder that he asked us

to climb one rung at a time

to get out of there um michelle as we

were listening to that

you’re you’re shaking your head uh is

that something that you would agree with

or that you experienced

in your own life i would certainly agree

with that

you know when you are in a pit the pit

of depression let’s just go ahead and

just

park there in the pit of depression um

sometimes you do

lay around i know for me my experience

was laying around for

weeks no one called

the world didn’t stop michelle was

depressed stop everybody

stop yeah you want that don’t you you

want that but

nope it did not happen it doesn’t make

sense that other people are still living

and having fun

and you’re sitting there stinky

depression makes you stink

now just to be honest because sometimes

you’re so weak

you don’t know if my experience you know

you are laying in the bed you’re so

weak that you’re going you’re getting up

to use the bathroom and getting back in

the bed

and so what i started doing when i was

in that place

no get up brush your teeth okay

okay you might even get back in the bed

okay

but get up brush your teeth okay now

take a shower

okay and then it’s like okay

what are you meditating on you know

putting some praise and worship music on

or music that uplifts you

um because you do have to make the move

for yourself

you are not gonna pray a prayer and then

like pop eye

your muscles you’re gonna eat some

spinach and then all of a sudden you’re

going to feel strong

it is a process yeah tell me

what that depression felt like for you

because i know it’s different for

everyone but there

are consistencies there are things that

someone else listening

will hear michelle and say yeah i get

that

what does it feel like for you well

depression for me

um it started around whatever age group

the seventh grade is that’s how far back

it went so it didn’t happen all of a

sudden when i got in destiny’s child the

music industry didn’t make me sad okay

um it’s so i remember

not wanting to be around people

isolation

my grades were failing i didn’t care

that’s where it started for me and so

then i kind of went up um

into my 30s not with the diagnosis

you know i knew in my 20s something

wasn’t quite right this is you know

during success touring um being around

people people dream to be around and i’m

like i feel like i’m depressed

something i felt like i’ve had a name to

it then

but in the seventh grade i didn’t i

thought it was growing pains

right did you think that that success

that you found because

you hit you hit it big would take care

of all of those feelings

like somehow getting what we

want should fix those problems i didn’t

i didn’t think success would take it

away i thought success

would just help me obtain maybe the

things i couldn’t obtain as a child

you know we were fed we had clean

clothes but

i wanted that coach purse you know when

you put it in your back pocket and the

tassel would hang out

i wanted that one nike i didn’t get my

first pair of nike until i went to

college so

to me success meant i can obtain certain

material things right

but then you’ll you then you notice okay

after i obtain

material things you know after i’m able

to sit back and watch my account build

it’s that didn’t take away that

um that thing yeah yeah yeah

deep depression that depression yeah um

but like i said it wasn’t until my 30s

that i actually got a diagnosis of

depression

and i was like wow did you feel relieved

like when when it had an official

i definitely felt relieved because you

you know i had a name to it

and then it’s like okay now that i have

a name to it i don’t want that to be my

label

so now what am i going to work it out

you know

but there have been some ups and downs

in that journey

since that diagnosis of depression you

know you can go years sometimes without

something happening and then something

happens where you’re like oh i’m not

healed from

childhood stuff that even put me in

depression in the seventh grade

so getting to the root of it’s

everything has a root

everything has a root well you even

mentioned that

success can be a type of trauma on its

own yes

absolutely success can be a trauma

trauma just isn’t blood

and gore trauma is your life changing

your privacy being taken away maybe

somebody following you to your home

um well i’ve had the type of trauma

where when i

when we would check into the hotel room

security would have to walk in to check

the room to

see if no one’s hiding in the closet and

i’m like

wait a minute i just want to go back to

wisconsin deals with my family and be

normal and we didn’t have to worry about

if someone’s

you know in the closet you know

um that’s that’s a little wonky yeah you

lose your sense of privacy

you do lose your sense of privacy um

and then you just taught this is what

comes with it suck it up

when you when you talk about finding

that root because i think that is so

important if we don’t pull the root out

it just keeps sprouting back

up how did you find that root because

i’m guessing i don’t know this for sure

but i’m guessing that part of finding

that

root also brought you to a place where

the the word of god was able

to help you pull that out and to help

you change

whatever happened that that wound to

begin with

um prayer and therapy they go together

because that therapist is trained to

help to

ask you questions you don’t know the

process

or there are different um therapy

uh types or practices i won’t get into

all of that

but they ask certain questions for a

reason

to get down to the root and before you

know it you’re talking about something

that happened at the age of three or

seven right or you’re discovering as we

discovered at that retreat together

there are certain emotional needs a

child

needs to have met or if not

when they are an adult those symptoms

begin to manifest so if you’re wondering

why you’re 35 years old

45 years old reacting like a child

having a tantrum when you lose something

or something happens

go back to your childhood and see at

what moment

you know this is just this is uh why am

i reacting as if somebody took my gummy

bears away from me

okay well what happened to you around

that age getting to the root of that

whether it was bullying verbal abuse

sexual abuse

witnessing domestic violence um

all those things um they they take root

especially when you grow up in a home

where you don’t talk about it

you know i grew up in a home where we

didn’t talk about it

um shout out to my family awesome

family successful family um a family

full of ministers

doctors great um great people

but i think uh my mom’s generation did

not

talk about things you saw things

and you swept it under the rug now i

know when you lift this rug up

there are no dust bunnies but if you’re

lifting our rugs

and maybe because my parents didn’t know

how to talk about things because they

didn’t talk about things in their

household

are you are you alive did it kill you

okay there’s nothing to talk about

right yeah do you have a roof over your

head you have clothes on your back

are you without food there’s nothing to

talk about be grateful

be grateful that’s it and i think i

wanted to add this like

michelle and i have a very similar

upbringing as well even all the way down

to like you know how i talk about being

cogic like

a pentecostal girl like at the core but

one of the things in my upbringing was

not un like we didn’t normalize

therapy or counseling it’s a very uh

culture of you know um what is it don’t

bring a reproach on god yourself or the

church

so like don’t talk about things to

people like this even was not

normal like having friends that you

actually were honest with

and i believe that what’s helping with

depression now even

when i struggled with it when i i went

through postpartum depression which is

different than you know like

clinical depression but that is real

like having a child and going through

that

real pit hormonal shift um

i didn’t even like i still was at a

place cause i was what 22

23 and i was still at a place where i’m

like i didn’t know i could go and talk

to somebody

and so i think you’re just stuffing

stuff i stuffed it and i didn’t know

like i was just lying there and then

everybody oh girl you want the

postpartum

and that was it it’s like well how do i

get up like yeah

how do i get up what do i do who can i

do with it

yeah what do i do with this so i think

it’s important for us to start

normalizing talking to people

and normalizing even therapy like

normalizing

dealing with it yeah because when you

see you ladies a question did y’all talk

about stuff

in your household were you free and was

the environment created like

mom this is bothering me mom this is

bothering me

dad this is bothering me grandma ain’t

he whoever

was were you allowed to talk about

things you want to go first yeah we were

and i don’t i don’t know if that’s a if

that’s just specific to my home

but i know my my mom was my best friend

she still is so we had that kind of

communication so when something bothered

me

i would go run to her so like it makes

me

kind of emotional hear you talk about

that because i can’t imagine what you

must have experienced

where you didn’t have someone that you

could feel like you could open up to

which makes sense because she didn’t

know how to do that either but yeah so i

did grow up in a home like that my dad

was the same way but

talking to my husband he didn’t have

that same experience okay

so he we’ve had to talk to a lot of that

stuff now like as you’re saying things

he went through as a kid

come out as an adult we’ve had

conversations and he

it’s him living through those things

again and

talking about them now yeah i was really

blessed in that experience

too we we talked about everything and it

was very

very open and it it was also okay to

hurt

yeah which i think is huge um nobody

expected you to hurt and you didn’t want

to stay there

but we did talk through things like that

i know

if joyce was here she would say she did

not grow up in a home

where anybody could do that right she

had so many secrets

in her home and so many wounds and i

know a lot of people

can um connect with that so

let’s listen to a little bit more that

she has to say something that’s really

important

about digging out of that pit and then

we’ll talk more about it

what goes on in your inner life what

goes on in there

behind those closed doors how do you

talk to yourself

those are thoughts they’re just inside

thoughts

how do you talk to yourself especially

how do you talk to yourself about

yourself

hey i say good things about me just in

case nobody else does

i’ve already got it taken care of

now i didn’t for a lot of years i had

all kinds of bad things to say to me

about me

but you are not ever going to be happy

if you don’t learn how to enjoy yourself

you have to learn how to enjoy god enjoy

yourself and when you do that then you

start to enjoy other people

how do you talk to yourself about

yourself how do you talk to yourself

about your life your future

your past the situation that you’re in

this is never going to change

i’m so sick and tired of your second

time second time second time

sick sick sick and tired and then you go

to god and say i don’t understand why

i’m so sick and tired

come on let’s get a slight revelation

here today

i’m sick and tired of this i hate my job

i hate my life i don’t know why i’m

unhappy

what you say to you is more important

than anything that anybody else says to

you

matter of fact if you say enough good

stuff to yourself you can even be around

somebody that

just makes a lifetime out of trying to

pull people down and it don’t have to

bother you at all because it’s what you

know about yourself that matters not

what everybody else thinks

self-talk drastically affects our moods

let me tell you something i could be in

some bad moods if i didn’t talk to

myself

let’s look at this again because this is

so good moreover let us be full of joy

now

let us exalt and triumph in our troubles

and rejoice in our sufferings

knowing that pressure and affliction and

hardship produce

patient and unswerving endurance

and endurance fortitude develops

maturity of character

approved faith and tried integrity and

character of this sort

produces i love this the habit

of joyful and confident hope

of eternal salvation it becomes a habit

make your mind up today that you’re

going to enjoy

life on purpose no matter how many

troubles you came in with

find something today that you can enjoy

think about something

that’s going to make you happy go be a

blessing

to somebody but refuse to let your day

just be 24 hours of sadness

and being gloomy and thinking about

every negative thing

that you can come up with to think about

so what do you all think when you hear

that scripture um

of what god wants us to think about and

what he wants us to do in our life but

there’s so much in all of that that she

was

saying what are some of the thoughts you

guys were having well

first of all i just want to say that i

think we all

love joyce meyer because of the

practical way she breaks things down

i felt convicted she’s like girl if you

don’t

start talking better to yourself

you know it’s like she’s so right

because um

as we think about a scripture in romans

12 i think you know don’t be conformed

to the things of this world but be

transformed by the renewing of your mind

she just told us how to renew the mind

because how many times do we hear that

scripture

be like renew my mind so am i just

supposed to read this scripture

and my mind’s supposed to be renewed so

it’s gonna help with

how you talk to yourself yeah what are

you reading on what are you hearing

um are there people in your life who

might be contributing to your depression

come on let them go or boundaries yeah

you know and so it i i was just sitting

here like

she’s giving some practical ways because

she she teaches no nonsense it’s just

not gonna happen overnight there are

some things that

you have to do and talking to yourself

and saying what god thinks about you and

you know

um uh whatever the things that are pure

lovely of good reporting

on these things yeah i love what what

you said

and then what joy said too about how

like it takes it took therapy and prayer

so my husband and i are going to been

going to therapy so i’m learning all

these great things i wouldn’t have

figured out otherwise so good but then

i have to like do something about it

that’s just not going to magically

change everything i’m putting all that

money on there

so last week i was like why is this not

working and then i realized where my

mind was going like i’m learning these

tools

but my mind is still going wherever i

want it to go so if i’m gonna get

anything out of this money we’re paying

i better start practicing these things

and i need to be renewing my mind with

christ and the things that he’s saying

it doesn’t matter that

i have this knowledge what i’m going to

do with that knowledge and it all goes

back to my mind and it’s not instant

grits people

no no microwave and then it’s going to

be edible

right sometimes it’s all it’s not edible

just know that before you know what a

week will go by two weeks to go by and

what you’ve been practicing and applying

you’ll see some changes

yeah yeah it becomes a habit it becomes

a habit like joyce said but

like the once the light bulb switches

when you realize

i have to take ownership of

my process of healing give it to the

lord of course of course

but you have to put feet to your faith

like

because it’s it’s easy and sometimes

it’s easier said than done i’ve been

there

i almost went there this round like i

could feel myself

um now you know it was like you know

like i’m um

and i would say things like i’m not good

enough maybe i wasn’t pretty enough

maybe the weight

maybe the you know so i started thinking

of all the things of the whys and

then there’s just like it’s it’s all the

little ugly things that satan was saying

in my ear you know that i started just

realizing i was thinking and maybe even

not always articulating but thinking

like

yeah she was better than me this like

that’s why

he he didn’t i wasn’t good enough for

him to love like it was things like that

that

when you’re sitting it so it’s it’s

heavy yeah okay like like

i said you can like you can fee it’s

heavy and so

and it feels almost impossible to do it

and but when you realize that you’re not

doing it on your own

but you have to activate that thing and

like start speaking

be mindful of what you’re saying about

yourself so i’m like no no no and then

even talking to you guys helped a whole

bunch through that season like because i

was feeling like

it was heavy yeah and so anybody that’s

listening like

we are we’re not saying that it’s not

it’s heavy it’s it’s not easy

like it’s in like it’s one little step

at a time that’s right what did you

replace those thoughts with i replaced

them with saying

positive affirmations about myself and

and you guys can go to previous episodes

when i was

walking through it and i still do today

like i

replenish my my little bathroom look

like a little teenage bathroom right now

but i don’t really care

because it’s getting me through on and i

might post it maybe because like

it’s post-it notes all over my mirror

that say like

i don’t even need a man to to validate

me i am beautiful i am fearfully and

wonderfully made

and like i even when i couldn’t say it i

saw it

and i was like and i look at myself and

like she don’t look it but

but the mirror

because that was one of the places where

i felt the least right yeah

like lovely like that was the place

where i felt the worst so

but you still were i was but it was it

it was hard to see it

absolutely when you’re going through it

and you’re feeling that way that’s hard

it’s like oh i feel like

oh but i literally started speaking it

and then we talk about the full armor of

god like actively putting that on every

day even when i’m like

hellmuth salvation you know sort of the

spirit like

you know but those practical things and

taking it step like you talked about

earlier that ladder

step by step that pulls you out of that

pit

yeah why is it so easy for us to have

these negative thoughts about ourselves

it is when we

know sitting here right now we know

those are all lies

but we sit now if you just want to use

that as an excuse to eat them good old

cream cheese brownies

go for it why don’t we speak good about

ourselves

and eat the brownies you know but it’s

just kind of like oh my gosh

i’m horrible i’m not lovable i’m just

going to eat my life away

it’s so easy it’s like our minds we

nab we gravitate to the negative

yeah so easy before i hate that it takes

practice

we have to be fight back ourselves yeah

i love the psalms for that

if you read through the psalms there’s

so many wonderful

encouraging psalms but more than that

they’re so real

because like psalms 13 it starts with

with saying are you going to forsake me

forever god have you forgotten

me i love how real that is

but then it ends up with like so many

psalms

yet i will praise you i trust you you

are here for me

so we can lay it all before god

but sometimes it hurts so much that we

don’t even know how to begin

to start doing that and that’s where

we’re praying for one another we’re

helping each other out

um we we need to sometimes

have a little bit of extra prayer to

pick us up yeah but we don’t always get

that sometimes we’re completely on

our own so do do what we can and

god gives little glimmers what were some

of the things that you saw at your

darkest moments when god began

lifting you out some of the things that

i

saw at my darkest moments

what did you do how did you change your

things i didn’t see a lot of good things

in my darkest moments if we talk about

we keep it

real yeah i didn’t see a lot of good

things in my darkest moments i was ready

to

end it end it all um

but i think i’m trying to what got me

through

deciding that day the world did not stop

for me

that’s kind of sobering like why was i

ex

people care about you they might but but

when people pick up the phone and call

you

you don’t really tell them how you’re

doing right because you don’t want to be

a burden

yeah so um definitely

because i’m like well because i have

faith

it was it was good to you know pick up

the word and

and um get those songs back in my spirit

because for a while i felt so ashamed

of what happened yeah i stopped

listening to praise and worship music

i felt shame you know how do you get

past that

that shame just know like i

shame to not listen to something that is

going to get me through

that got me to where i am i think that’s

the what the enemy wants

is if he can take away certain things

and now he has you to himself

that’s the perfect place for him to take

you out

yeah the perfect spot but you will not

win

today and he did not win

you know there’s a song that i’ve been

listening to called i’m alive because

there’s more

yeah you know and so um there that’s

there is more

every time we get up and take a breath

there is

more there is purpose um i

will not as much as i can i will

not let the enemy celebrate and put his

little

con you know that what’s the party hats

on and blow the the thing

you’re not gonna do that with me yeah no

pity party no so was it like a like a

perspective change

definitely a pers a perspective change

and then

um declaring no

more depression no more depression i was

tired of those pits

so now if i sense it i’m not saying that

i don’t have things that come along my

way

that can make me upset but i no longer

sit i go work out i drink my nutritional

shakes

i eat because for me it it affects my

appetite

so when you don’t eat you’re weak and

you no no

no no no staying not staying busy but

doing something productive

yeah um to to stay up and that is my

responsibility oh and end of 2019

coming into 2020 i said no more

no more and in 2020 there was

no more did i have hurts

and triggers absolutely but did i get in

the bed

no how do we help people how what is do

you have people close to you

what do you do if somebody tells you hey

i’m

down and depressed if you know i don’t

know

your experience or we know your

experience with it what are some of the

things that maybe we can help people

be like okay definitely don’t say that

you know some of the cool

things that you know i do i think that’s

a great question and one of the

first things is i tell them thank you

like

thank you for telling me that that’s so

good acknowledging it yeah because i

love them so much and i know how hard it

is

to admit that sometimes and to just say

thank you for sharing your life with me

like that and i will

be here i’ll pray for you i’ll talk

through anything you want me to

we can do what you want we can pray

together i can pray for you and keep it

to myself

we can we can look at the word together

but i think being there

for them is more important than anything

else that i know of i was just talking

to a friend last night it’s a

friend of mike and ice and he struggles

with depression so he was just sharing

what that experience has been like and i

was i told him i’m so appreciative of

you opening up about this i know it’s

not easy to talk about and

he was saying how he and his wife have

been together so long she’s

learned like when he when he’s in that

place

and so she knows sometimes he doesn’t

need to talk

yeah and so it’s learning that from what

i took from him learning that person

and respecting what they might need

because he said usually he can be over

like the next day might be better

and so it’s not pushing them but sort of

going at their pace

i found that was really interesting just

that’s what worked for them

and that’s a form of being there for

that person right verbally or non-verbal

different for each person like what do

you need but sometimes being there for

them

also means some tough love yeah yeah

sure you don’t let someone

stay in that dark dark place

you’re there to help them even if it’s

just incredible intercessory prayer i’m

not going to give up on them

i’m going to keep telling them that god

loves them and has a good plan for them

even if they don’t want to hear it

not to the point where it hurts our

relationships but i’m not going to give

up on them

that’s why jay calls me nosy

we stop calling you nosy we call you

karen aaron yeah not nosy rosie

my initial name was josie and then we

were like okay

here’s one of the things that i like to

um

just share with people that get people

that come to them to say like oh i’m

struggling with this it could be

depression or

anything we have we have so many

resources now

like long gone are they like the excuses

of like oh i don’t know what to do

it’s called google you know like i mean

i’m not saying that google knows

everything but there are so many helpful

tips out there to say like how to deal

with the friend that’s

struggling with depression what are some

things to say and what not to say

you know like it’s so much out there now

that we have to if we really

care about the person taking and that’s

with any topic that’s what anything that

your friends are struggling with like

taking that personal

like accountability to say i’m going to

google to see yes

i’m going to ask i’ll call other doctors

because if you care

yeah you have to be invested in doing it

but one of the things that i’ve told

even friends because i’ve come out of

depression before and because i’ve felt

myself spiraling a little bit yeah

you know is i like it’s one of the

things you kind of said it’s like

the healing takes time the decision can

be

instant you know like once you realize

that the decision to say i’m not gonna

i’m not gonna lose to this like yeah

this can’t win over me that can be in a

moment

so like if you’re struggling with it

right now you can make you can

even if you feel very very weak you can

make a decision and say god with your

help

me man with your help like i don’t have

to deal with this anymore i mean i can

be done with this

i can be done with this right now yes

but you have to understand

that the healing takes time that’s the

part that was the hardest for me was

because

i wanted it to be as instant as my words

were and that wasn’t the case it’s still

not the case i still

struggle with certain parts of my life

and what’s going on

and you’re not a bad christian because

you still struggle exactly

it’s a process but the healing part

takes time

yeah and only god can determine that

time but as long as you do the work

as long as you make those decisions as

long as you make the decision to say

like because i wasn’t ashamed

to not listen to worship music i was

disappointed

i didn’t want to hear any more music

that this music i

sang to people i didn’t want to hear it

anymore i didn’t because i sang and i’m

like how could this happen to me

i was not ashamed i was just mad and

it’s okay to say like i’m disappointed

i’m angry

i’m angry i don’t want to sing i don’t

want to listen but at some point you’re

going to have to understand that that’s

the medicine you need to get yourself

right

so you have to make the decision like i

don’t want to hear it then you just

listen

have it playing in the background and

eventually you’ll start singing it you

know just take it

be gracious to yourself but uh

understand that the healing

takes time but the decision can be right

now

so that takes like a little crack in

that darkness for

hope and light to seep in you need

just a little crack sometimes to

to begin to make that statement that you

said you know

this this is where i’m going to fight

back

yeah and you say no more exactly and i

surrender and i raise my hands there are

moments where i’m walking around in my

condo with the musical

my hands are raised okay because

worship does help with everything it

helps with worry it helps with anxiety

it helps with depression

it helps dealing with any with any other

unfortunate situation or diagnosis that

you had

worship at the end of the day it does

help it’s just not

just don’t be like me or with what jay

is saying just

you know um because the enemy wants to

snatch

your prayers and your worship because

his whole plan is to steal

kill and destroy and if when he gets you

by yourself

he can do whatever he wants with you and

then you come in agreement with that

and you walk in that and um

before you know it you you can be out of

here

permanently yeah and you you have to

then you have to also then pivot from

just listening

to opening your mouth amen that’s right

wield your weapon

like because a lot of times we listen to

music or we

we read the words silently and don’t oh

and i realized in my pit of like my

lowest pitch

i remember just yes

it was oh it’s gripping like and

sometimes just

you know it’s it’s crazy like and so i

remember that and i know like how i even

sometimes feel

in this whole season of healing is like

you just

it’s like i want to my heart wants to

but you just have to make a sound

you have to will yourself to wield your

weapon you go from

listening to the music listening to the

sermon online listening to the

all that listening to the podcast great

great great great great great but at

some point

you’re going to open your own mouth

because he wants to hear your worship

and satan needs to hear your specific

voice to cast him out you have to use

your words it’s so good

so and let the word of god seep into

that

one little crack of hope yeah that that

you begin to see open up i mean there’s

so many amazing scriptures

of who god wants to be in our lives he’s

the lover of our soul

he’s the healer of our deepest darkest

hurts

he is that hope in the most hopeless

situation

and just like jay said write down those

scriptures

and like you said michelle don’t be

ashamed to reach out and get the help

that you need

whether it’s professionally maybe it’s

medication

because you know this this is not just

something that is

um be because there’s something wrong

with me

i made a mistake i did something that i

deserve this

and that’s how we feel sometimes when

we’re in that dark place

it’s not that we deserve it sometimes we

need some

physical help to get our body through

this

as well as our soul and spiritually so

it’s just a whole thing in it that’s so

good we take ibuprofen

for headaches you know maybe you know

when if you go to the hospital for food

poisoning

they’re going to give you an iv for

nausea and an

iv they’re going to pump your stomach in

that bag

let’s get the bad stuff out okay yeah

from your electrolytes they’re gonna

hydrate you

so you know and i didn’t want to get too

you know medical

but when you brought up medication that

that’s an option too

you know and maybe it doesn’t have to be

permanent i don’t know the situation

you know for me you know yes medication

was involved

um but because i believe you know i’m

taking it for

if i have a headache for ibuprofen a

headache for ibuprofen

for a headache then maybe it can take

something um

for anxiety that will lead to depression

so just you know

like we said get go go go see somebody

and have no shame about it like you

don’t have to

broadcast it to everybody unless you

feel led one day and you feel it’s going

to inspire make

impact and change and save a life go for

it i’m with you on that

um but like you said um definitely

don’t don’t have any shame of talking

to somebody however when when you said

that

about prayer and therapy i can just hear

so many christians going

uh-uh are you taking away the power of

god

exactly and that’s not how it works

because

when when you talk about prayer

god’s hands aren’t tied by anything

so he gives us the ability

to have medical advancement so i just

love that you’re saying that and i think

it’s so important

that we as christians can stop

blaming one another for the problems

that we face

stop putting shame on it if we need

extra help

and can look at it in a holistic

approach like we do everything else in

our life

as long as god is the focus and we’re

not trusting

something else over him but if we’re

putting them together

i think that’s hugely important yeah

i’ve heard uh

dr dr anita phillips say i believe i’m

i’m quoting it correctly you know prayer

is a weapon

therapy is a strategy so i know that

after i leave therapy

i pray and like now jesus you heard what

she said so thi

and i feel like my prayers have become

even more specific

it’s like after you get a doctor’s

report you pray specifically according

to what that doctor said

well we’re going to close with with a

little bit of encouragement from joyce

but before we do that michelle is there

anything that you would say

because you’re talking to our friends

who may be in that place

where you were a few years ago

what what is the

best advice that you would give them to

hang on to that hope that’s out there

because he lives i can face

tomorrow because he

lives all fear is gone

and yes i know

who holds my future this is the advice

and your life is worth

the living just because he lives

that’s awesome oh my god

[Laughter]

oh wow yeah i try to sit down here

sometimes you know

come on girls let’s go i’ll never do it

again

you don’t want it um yeah

yeah life is worth the lord the lord

has you here for a reason i contemplated

many times

but my life is worth living that’s right

simply because he lives yeah that even

simply

what it took for him yeah to die

for us to live to live again

yeah yeah you know so good yeah well

friends we love you so much we’re so

glad that you’ve been here with us and

we just pray that you can

hold on to something today that you

heard that

god who loves you so much and has so

much ahead for you for your future

will bring that little glimmer of hope

and light into your life we do have a

free resource for you today because

we love you we want to get the word into

your hand so go to joycemeyer.org

talk it out and get the free resource

called overcoming depression

we hope that you’ll do what god asks you

to do

and most importantly i i think i want

you to hear this

there is no shame in your pain that’s

good

there’s only shame that’s being put on

you from satan and you don’t have to

take that

you can right now just like michelle

said just like jay said

you can say no and it’s not going to

happen overnight it’s a slow process

but we see it sitting right here

it’s real and there’s hope for you so we

just love you so

much we want you to know that you matter

and we’re going to close

with this encouragement from joyce as we

say goodbye thank you again michelle

thank you thank you for having me don’t

let this be the last time

it’s just michelle again we’ll see y’all

next time

bye there’s one person that the devil

cannot defeat

and that’s somebody who refuses to give

up

every time you find yourself in a pit

skip the guilt trip

climb out i got to keep saying skip the

guilt trip because

if you make a mistake one time and you

realize it

and now you start feeling guilty it’s

going to weaken you

and help you fall right back into the

same trap again

guilt does nothing good for us at all

repent go on about your business paul

said one thing i do

one thing i do the great apostle paul

one thing i do it is my one

aspiration letting go of the things that

are behind

and pressing toward the things

that are ahead and that is your

privilege today whether you’re in this

building or watching by tv

no matter how many mistakes you’ve made

no matter what kind of pit you find

yourself in right now

the answer from god is very simple

talk to god about it repent climb back

out of the pit

make a good decision that’s going to

override the bad decision

skip the guilt trip and go on if you

fall in again

do it again if you fall in again do it

again if you fall in again

do it again and no matter how many times

it takes

you will wear the devil out if you don’t

give up