Today, the stunning Michelle Williams (yes, from Destiny’s Child—we’re fangirling just a tad over here!!) is here and shares some of her most practical tips and inspiration from her own journey of encountering, fighting and overcoming depression. She and the girls unpack a lot of the nitty-gritty questions and details of how you can start on the road to recovery from depression—and even how to help a loved one who’s fighting that battle themselves.
yeah why is it so easy for us to have
these negative thoughts about ourselves
it is
when we know that sitting here right now
we know those are all
lies but we sit now if you just want to
use that as an excuse to eat some good
old cream cheese brownies
go for it
[Music]
hi everyone come on in here we’ve been
waiting for you this is joyce meyer’s
talk it out podcast
where joyce teaches the word of god in
her wonderful practical no-nonsense way
and my friends and i talk about the real
stuff of living it
and we do not hold anything back i’m
gingerstockie
with my beautiful friends jay and erin
cluley
three friends who are all in different
stages of life
sometimes i highlight very and that
makes me feel really old
very very different stages because i’m
really old
i’m not gonna do that anymore but we do
understand the importance of having
loving honest
women around you and when we need a
little help we call it miss joyce
and we just realized that sometimes you
gotta talk about life with your
girlfriends so consider yourself one of
us and let’s talk it out
someone sent me a message about
something we should talk about on the
podcast oh yeah
it was a good one but i responded and
said just just so you know like it’ll be
a really honest conversation
because that’s what we do i know so
throw me your ideas and then you just
wait and see what happens
i like diving just so you know
prerequisite for this conversation a
little warning don’t suggest
anything right you don’t want to deep
dive in right exactly
well speaking of deep dive i just want
to share with all of
you guys out there and you too i
have not eaten pork
[Laughter]
i know that you’re sharing this what’s
gonna happen it is important
to me it’s important is that what you
smell
left out at every event is it the bacon
yes you even make it you thought that
you were even like at our last thing
when we
came over your house you thought we out
you were doing something nice to be like
jay i really think you’re gonna like
these ham cubes i’m like ginger
i haven’t eaten ham or pork in eight
years but i gave in and it’s because i
misread
a text and i thought you specifically
asked for it i don’t know what’s
happening i thought you were joking i
was like
what is it yeah but i gave in and i ate
pork this weekend
how you feeling great my stomach kind of
did this sound like
but that was like what’s gonna happen
yeah i was like oh but it didn’t work
and then we’re back we’re good thank you
for sharing that i thought it was
important
you know we talk about the real stuff
and hold nothing back
right i eat bacon now so i’m really glad
about this yeah i know i feel like i
leave for you
so i can party and and and fellowship
better with you guys
i’m happy now bring on the pepperoni i
did not mean
for the little bits of damn that i made
you stirred up a lot
of your life but it was like i wanted to
taste it
you don’t cook often so the fact that
you made them
you know how much i loved you i felt the
love and i’ve just felt like i
cried for you
yeah well we’re really excited because
we have a guest today with us that you
are going to love
and we’re also talking about a topic
that is
so very important and i think often
brushed over in the church and i think
we’ll talk about that too
but um we are going to have someone with
us who
dealt with depression a lot of her life
and really felt like fame and fortune
and success might help take care of it
she found out just the opposite and
michelle williams is a friend of jays
but she is also well known for many many
things you know michelle from everywhere
right she writes she’s written books
she’s an author she’s a podcast host
um she rose to fame in the most famous
girl
group of all time destiny’s child she is
going to be here with us to talk about
her
bout with depression and most
importantly the freedom that she’s
finding in christ and
something that that we can all relate to
in one way or another and
aaron’s totally fangirling i didn’t want
to say anything when i walked in but
i’m so glad i got this seat because
she’s like right next to me
i’m not getting so cool and i’m going to
look over and karen will just be like
rubbing her hair hey michelle well let
me let me just say this like michelle
williams i’ve i’ve been
a fan girl for years just because of the
music and i’ve seen her from afar
um loved her music love what she’s done
with the group but also when she pivoted
and did gospel music like
that was huge for her to step out and do
that so
i’ve been a fan from afar but what
really connected me to her
um was when um we went i went on a
retreat after you guys know what what
i’ve been going through over the past
couple years with the
the affair and the the divorce and all
that stuff but um
her transparency at a retreat that i
went to is really what made me just
fall in love with her i’m just grateful
that she’s here and sharing her story
that’s really cool
yeah and that’s what we really want to
help other people understand today is
there’s no reason
to have shame or to hide our pain
and yeah it doesn’t mean we need to air
it everywhere right
we have to be careful with what we’re
doing but there should not be
shame especially in the church about
dealing with these things
so she’s going to be coming we’re going
to be talking about it um
we’re going to of course start with a
little bit of god’s word and we’re going
to see
what joyce has to say about what this
kind of
pit feels like when you’re dealing with
depression so let’s listen and then
we’ll bring on our special guest
you know we all have times in our life
when we get disappointed and the answer
to being disappointed is to get
reappointed
we all have times when we’re discouraged
but the answer is to then
find a way to be encouraged
just like light always overcomes
darkness positive things
always overcome negative things
now there’s a little place that the
devil wants us to live in called the pit
anybody know about the pit the pit of
depression
the pit of discouragement the pit of
fear
anger whatever it might be
well what is a pit it’s a sunken place
a low place a dark and an unpleasant
place i believe self-pity is a pit
there’s nothing worse than spending a
whole day sitting around in a half dark
room feeling sorry for yourself
it’s terrible it’s certainly not a place
that god wants us to be in and it’s
certainly not a place that jesus died
for us
to live in joseph’s brothers threw him
into a pit and he ended up in the palace
so he must have found some way to get
out of that pit
and you may be in a place like that
right now maybe some of you watching by
television you
think you accidentally turned this
program on just flipping through the
channels and
you’re sitting in a pit of depression or
fear or
anger and it’s no accident that you’ve
joined us god is going to show you
through his word how you can get out of
that pit
now we pray for god to get us out of
places we don’t want to be in but to be
honest
it’s not all about prayer i found out
many times when we pray and ask god to
do something for us he
shows us what we need to do i’m going to
say that again just to make sure you got
it
a lot of times when we ask god to do
something for
us instead of just magically doing it
for
us he shows us what we need to do
to change that thing in our life
that is a huge statement it’s huge and
michelle
thank you so much for being with us it’s
so fun to have you it
is so fun to be with y’all today i know
we’re talking about a heavy topic but
i’ve been hanging out with y’all for a
little while today
and you guys are just a fun bunch
i just want to see this on like
mainstream like
tv where’s the network come on come on
it was funny we were getting ready and
michelle said does joyce know what goes
on here
and yeah she does she’s part of it she
always tells
just a great fun spirit
um that’s uh in here so get that right
in yeah we’re glad you’re one of the
girls yeah
i feel like it already i want to jump
into what she said about
we want god to take our pain right we
want him to
just lift us up out of that pit and so
many times
it’s more like a ladder that he asked us
to climb one rung at a time
to get out of there um michelle as we
were listening to that
you’re you’re shaking your head uh is
that something that you would agree with
or that you experienced
in your own life i would certainly agree
with that
you know when you are in a pit the pit
of depression let’s just go ahead and
just
park there in the pit of depression um
sometimes you do
lay around i know for me my experience
was laying around for
weeks no one called
the world didn’t stop michelle was
depressed stop everybody
stop yeah you want that don’t you you
want that but
nope it did not happen it doesn’t make
sense that other people are still living
and having fun
and you’re sitting there stinky
depression makes you stink
now just to be honest because sometimes
you’re so weak
you don’t know if my experience you know
you are laying in the bed you’re so
weak that you’re going you’re getting up
to use the bathroom and getting back in
the bed
and so what i started doing when i was
in that place
no get up brush your teeth okay
okay you might even get back in the bed
okay
but get up brush your teeth okay now
take a shower
okay and then it’s like okay
what are you meditating on you know
putting some praise and worship music on
or music that uplifts you
um because you do have to make the move
for yourself
you are not gonna pray a prayer and then
like pop eye
your muscles you’re gonna eat some
spinach and then all of a sudden you’re
going to feel strong
it is a process yeah tell me
what that depression felt like for you
because i know it’s different for
everyone but there
are consistencies there are things that
someone else listening
will hear michelle and say yeah i get
that
what does it feel like for you well
depression for me
um it started around whatever age group
the seventh grade is that’s how far back
it went so it didn’t happen all of a
sudden when i got in destiny’s child the
music industry didn’t make me sad okay
um it’s so i remember
not wanting to be around people
isolation
my grades were failing i didn’t care
that’s where it started for me and so
then i kind of went up um
into my 30s not with the diagnosis
you know i knew in my 20s something
wasn’t quite right this is you know
during success touring um being around
people people dream to be around and i’m
like i feel like i’m depressed
something i felt like i’ve had a name to
it then
but in the seventh grade i didn’t i
thought it was growing pains
right did you think that that success
that you found because
you hit you hit it big would take care
of all of those feelings
like somehow getting what we
want should fix those problems i didn’t
i didn’t think success would take it
away i thought success
would just help me obtain maybe the
things i couldn’t obtain as a child
you know we were fed we had clean
clothes but
i wanted that coach purse you know when
you put it in your back pocket and the
tassel would hang out
i wanted that one nike i didn’t get my
first pair of nike until i went to
college so
to me success meant i can obtain certain
material things right
but then you’ll you then you notice okay
after i obtain
material things you know after i’m able
to sit back and watch my account build
it’s that didn’t take away that
um that thing yeah yeah yeah
deep depression that depression yeah um
but like i said it wasn’t until my 30s
that i actually got a diagnosis of
depression
and i was like wow did you feel relieved
like when when it had an official
i definitely felt relieved because you
you know i had a name to it
and then it’s like okay now that i have
a name to it i don’t want that to be my
label
so now what am i going to work it out
you know
but there have been some ups and downs
in that journey
since that diagnosis of depression you
know you can go years sometimes without
something happening and then something
happens where you’re like oh i’m not
healed from
childhood stuff that even put me in
depression in the seventh grade
so getting to the root of it’s
everything has a root
everything has a root well you even
mentioned that
success can be a type of trauma on its
own yes
absolutely success can be a trauma
trauma just isn’t blood
and gore trauma is your life changing
your privacy being taken away maybe
somebody following you to your home
um well i’ve had the type of trauma
where when i
when we would check into the hotel room
security would have to walk in to check
the room to
see if no one’s hiding in the closet and
i’m like
wait a minute i just want to go back to
wisconsin deals with my family and be
normal and we didn’t have to worry about
if someone’s
you know in the closet you know
um that’s that’s a little wonky yeah you
lose your sense of privacy
you do lose your sense of privacy um
and then you just taught this is what
comes with it suck it up
when you when you talk about finding
that root because i think that is so
important if we don’t pull the root out
it just keeps sprouting back
up how did you find that root because
i’m guessing i don’t know this for sure
but i’m guessing that part of finding
that
root also brought you to a place where
the the word of god was able
to help you pull that out and to help
you change
whatever happened that that wound to
begin with
um prayer and therapy they go together
because that therapist is trained to
help to
ask you questions you don’t know the
process
or there are different um therapy
uh types or practices i won’t get into
all of that
but they ask certain questions for a
reason
to get down to the root and before you
know it you’re talking about something
that happened at the age of three or
seven right or you’re discovering as we
discovered at that retreat together
there are certain emotional needs a
child
needs to have met or if not
when they are an adult those symptoms
begin to manifest so if you’re wondering
why you’re 35 years old
45 years old reacting like a child
having a tantrum when you lose something
or something happens
go back to your childhood and see at
what moment
you know this is just this is uh why am
i reacting as if somebody took my gummy
bears away from me
okay well what happened to you around
that age getting to the root of that
whether it was bullying verbal abuse
sexual abuse
witnessing domestic violence um
all those things um they they take root
especially when you grow up in a home
where you don’t talk about it
you know i grew up in a home where we
didn’t talk about it
um shout out to my family awesome
family successful family um a family
full of ministers
doctors great um great people
but i think uh my mom’s generation did
not
talk about things you saw things
and you swept it under the rug now i
know when you lift this rug up
there are no dust bunnies but if you’re
lifting our rugs
and maybe because my parents didn’t know
how to talk about things because they
didn’t talk about things in their
household
are you are you alive did it kill you
okay there’s nothing to talk about
right yeah do you have a roof over your
head you have clothes on your back
are you without food there’s nothing to
talk about be grateful
be grateful that’s it and i think i
wanted to add this like
michelle and i have a very similar
upbringing as well even all the way down
to like you know how i talk about being
cogic like
a pentecostal girl like at the core but
one of the things in my upbringing was
not un like we didn’t normalize
therapy or counseling it’s a very uh
culture of you know um what is it don’t
bring a reproach on god yourself or the
church
so like don’t talk about things to
people like this even was not
normal like having friends that you
actually were honest with
and i believe that what’s helping with
depression now even
when i struggled with it when i i went
through postpartum depression which is
different than you know like
clinical depression but that is real
like having a child and going through
that
real pit hormonal shift um
i didn’t even like i still was at a
place cause i was what 22
23 and i was still at a place where i’m
like i didn’t know i could go and talk
to somebody
and so i think you’re just stuffing
stuff i stuffed it and i didn’t know
like i was just lying there and then
everybody oh girl you want the
postpartum
and that was it it’s like well how do i
get up like yeah
how do i get up what do i do who can i
do with it
yeah what do i do with this so i think
it’s important for us to start
normalizing talking to people
and normalizing even therapy like
normalizing
dealing with it yeah because when you
see you ladies a question did y’all talk
about stuff
in your household were you free and was
the environment created like
mom this is bothering me mom this is
bothering me
dad this is bothering me grandma ain’t
he whoever
was were you allowed to talk about
things you want to go first yeah we were
and i don’t i don’t know if that’s a if
that’s just specific to my home
but i know my my mom was my best friend
she still is so we had that kind of
communication so when something bothered
me
i would go run to her so like it makes
me
kind of emotional hear you talk about
that because i can’t imagine what you
must have experienced
where you didn’t have someone that you
could feel like you could open up to
which makes sense because she didn’t
know how to do that either but yeah so i
did grow up in a home like that my dad
was the same way but
talking to my husband he didn’t have
that same experience okay
so he we’ve had to talk to a lot of that
stuff now like as you’re saying things
he went through as a kid
come out as an adult we’ve had
conversations and he
it’s him living through those things
again and
talking about them now yeah i was really
blessed in that experience
too we we talked about everything and it
was very
very open and it it was also okay to
hurt
yeah which i think is huge um nobody
expected you to hurt and you didn’t want
to stay there
but we did talk through things like that
i know
if joyce was here she would say she did
not grow up in a home
where anybody could do that right she
had so many secrets
in her home and so many wounds and i
know a lot of people
can um connect with that so
let’s listen to a little bit more that
she has to say something that’s really
important
about digging out of that pit and then
we’ll talk more about it
what goes on in your inner life what
goes on in there
behind those closed doors how do you
talk to yourself
those are thoughts they’re just inside
thoughts
how do you talk to yourself especially
how do you talk to yourself about
yourself
hey i say good things about me just in
case nobody else does
i’ve already got it taken care of
now i didn’t for a lot of years i had
all kinds of bad things to say to me
about me
but you are not ever going to be happy
if you don’t learn how to enjoy yourself
you have to learn how to enjoy god enjoy
yourself and when you do that then you
start to enjoy other people
how do you talk to yourself about
yourself how do you talk to yourself
about your life your future
your past the situation that you’re in
this is never going to change
i’m so sick and tired of your second
time second time second time
sick sick sick and tired and then you go
to god and say i don’t understand why
i’m so sick and tired
come on let’s get a slight revelation
here today
i’m sick and tired of this i hate my job
i hate my life i don’t know why i’m
unhappy
what you say to you is more important
than anything that anybody else says to
you
matter of fact if you say enough good
stuff to yourself you can even be around
somebody that
just makes a lifetime out of trying to
pull people down and it don’t have to
bother you at all because it’s what you
know about yourself that matters not
what everybody else thinks
self-talk drastically affects our moods
let me tell you something i could be in
some bad moods if i didn’t talk to
myself
let’s look at this again because this is
so good moreover let us be full of joy
now
let us exalt and triumph in our troubles
and rejoice in our sufferings
knowing that pressure and affliction and
hardship produce
patient and unswerving endurance
and endurance fortitude develops
maturity of character
approved faith and tried integrity and
character of this sort
produces i love this the habit
of joyful and confident hope
of eternal salvation it becomes a habit
make your mind up today that you’re
going to enjoy
life on purpose no matter how many
troubles you came in with
find something today that you can enjoy
think about something
that’s going to make you happy go be a
blessing
to somebody but refuse to let your day
just be 24 hours of sadness
and being gloomy and thinking about
every negative thing
that you can come up with to think about
so what do you all think when you hear
that scripture um
of what god wants us to think about and
what he wants us to do in our life but
there’s so much in all of that that she
was
saying what are some of the thoughts you
guys were having well
first of all i just want to say that i
think we all
love joyce meyer because of the
practical way she breaks things down
i felt convicted she’s like girl if you
don’t
start talking better to yourself
you know it’s like she’s so right
because um
as we think about a scripture in romans
12 i think you know don’t be conformed
to the things of this world but be
transformed by the renewing of your mind
she just told us how to renew the mind
because how many times do we hear that
scripture
be like renew my mind so am i just
supposed to read this scripture
and my mind’s supposed to be renewed so
it’s gonna help with
how you talk to yourself yeah what are
you reading on what are you hearing
um are there people in your life who
might be contributing to your depression
come on let them go or boundaries yeah
you know and so it i i was just sitting
here like
she’s giving some practical ways because
she she teaches no nonsense it’s just
not gonna happen overnight there are
some things that
you have to do and talking to yourself
and saying what god thinks about you and
you know
um uh whatever the things that are pure
lovely of good reporting
on these things yeah i love what what
you said
and then what joy said too about how
like it takes it took therapy and prayer
so my husband and i are going to been
going to therapy so i’m learning all
these great things i wouldn’t have
figured out otherwise so good but then
i have to like do something about it
that’s just not going to magically
change everything i’m putting all that
money on there
so last week i was like why is this not
working and then i realized where my
mind was going like i’m learning these
tools
but my mind is still going wherever i
want it to go so if i’m gonna get
anything out of this money we’re paying
i better start practicing these things
and i need to be renewing my mind with
christ and the things that he’s saying
it doesn’t matter that
i have this knowledge what i’m going to
do with that knowledge and it all goes
back to my mind and it’s not instant
grits people
no no microwave and then it’s going to
be edible
right sometimes it’s all it’s not edible
just know that before you know what a
week will go by two weeks to go by and
what you’ve been practicing and applying
you’ll see some changes
yeah yeah it becomes a habit it becomes
a habit like joyce said but
like the once the light bulb switches
when you realize
i have to take ownership of
my process of healing give it to the
lord of course of course
but you have to put feet to your faith
like
because it’s it’s easy and sometimes
it’s easier said than done i’ve been
there
i almost went there this round like i
could feel myself
um now you know it was like you know
like i’m um
and i would say things like i’m not good
enough maybe i wasn’t pretty enough
maybe the weight
maybe the you know so i started thinking
of all the things of the whys and
then there’s just like it’s it’s all the
little ugly things that satan was saying
in my ear you know that i started just
realizing i was thinking and maybe even
not always articulating but thinking
like
yeah she was better than me this like
that’s why
he he didn’t i wasn’t good enough for
him to love like it was things like that
that
when you’re sitting it so it’s it’s
heavy yeah okay like like
i said you can like you can fee it’s
heavy and so
and it feels almost impossible to do it
and but when you realize that you’re not
doing it on your own
but you have to activate that thing and
like start speaking
be mindful of what you’re saying about
yourself so i’m like no no no and then
even talking to you guys helped a whole
bunch through that season like because i
was feeling like
it was heavy yeah and so anybody that’s
listening like
we are we’re not saying that it’s not
it’s heavy it’s it’s not easy
like it’s in like it’s one little step
at a time that’s right what did you
replace those thoughts with i replaced
them with saying
positive affirmations about myself and
and you guys can go to previous episodes
when i was
walking through it and i still do today
like i
replenish my my little bathroom look
like a little teenage bathroom right now
but i don’t really care
because it’s getting me through on and i
might post it maybe because like
it’s post-it notes all over my mirror
that say like
i don’t even need a man to to validate
me i am beautiful i am fearfully and
wonderfully made
and like i even when i couldn’t say it i
saw it
and i was like and i look at myself and
like she don’t look it but
but the mirror
because that was one of the places where
i felt the least right yeah
like lovely like that was the place
where i felt the worst so
but you still were i was but it was it
it was hard to see it
absolutely when you’re going through it
and you’re feeling that way that’s hard
it’s like oh i feel like
oh but i literally started speaking it
and then we talk about the full armor of
god like actively putting that on every
day even when i’m like
hellmuth salvation you know sort of the
spirit like
you know but those practical things and
taking it step like you talked about
earlier that ladder
step by step that pulls you out of that
pit
yeah why is it so easy for us to have
these negative thoughts about ourselves
it is when we
know sitting here right now we know
those are all lies
but we sit now if you just want to use
that as an excuse to eat them good old
cream cheese brownies
go for it why don’t we speak good about
ourselves
and eat the brownies you know but it’s
just kind of like oh my gosh
i’m horrible i’m not lovable i’m just
going to eat my life away
it’s so easy it’s like our minds we
nab we gravitate to the negative
yeah so easy before i hate that it takes
practice
we have to be fight back ourselves yeah
i love the psalms for that
if you read through the psalms there’s
so many wonderful
encouraging psalms but more than that
they’re so real
because like psalms 13 it starts with
with saying are you going to forsake me
forever god have you forgotten
me i love how real that is
but then it ends up with like so many
psalms
yet i will praise you i trust you you
are here for me
so we can lay it all before god
but sometimes it hurts so much that we
don’t even know how to begin
to start doing that and that’s where
we’re praying for one another we’re
helping each other out
um we we need to sometimes
have a little bit of extra prayer to
pick us up yeah but we don’t always get
that sometimes we’re completely on
our own so do do what we can and
god gives little glimmers what were some
of the things that you saw at your
darkest moments when god began
lifting you out some of the things that
i
saw at my darkest moments
what did you do how did you change your
things i didn’t see a lot of good things
in my darkest moments if we talk about
we keep it
real yeah i didn’t see a lot of good
things in my darkest moments i was ready
to
end it end it all um
but i think i’m trying to what got me
through
deciding that day the world did not stop
for me
that’s kind of sobering like why was i
ex
people care about you they might but but
when people pick up the phone and call
you
you don’t really tell them how you’re
doing right because you don’t want to be
a burden
yeah so um definitely
because i’m like well because i have
faith
it was it was good to you know pick up
the word and
and um get those songs back in my spirit
because for a while i felt so ashamed
of what happened yeah i stopped
listening to praise and worship music
i felt shame you know how do you get
past that
that shame just know like i
shame to not listen to something that is
going to get me through
that got me to where i am i think that’s
the what the enemy wants
is if he can take away certain things
and now he has you to himself
that’s the perfect place for him to take
you out
yeah the perfect spot but you will not
win
today and he did not win
you know there’s a song that i’ve been
listening to called i’m alive because
there’s more
yeah you know and so um there that’s
there is more
every time we get up and take a breath
there is
more there is purpose um i
will not as much as i can i will
not let the enemy celebrate and put his
little
con you know that what’s the party hats
on and blow the the thing
you’re not gonna do that with me yeah no
pity party no so was it like a like a
perspective change
definitely a pers a perspective change
and then
um declaring no
more depression no more depression i was
tired of those pits
so now if i sense it i’m not saying that
i don’t have things that come along my
way
that can make me upset but i no longer
sit i go work out i drink my nutritional
shakes
i eat because for me it it affects my
appetite
so when you don’t eat you’re weak and
you no no
no no no staying not staying busy but
doing something productive
yeah um to to stay up and that is my
responsibility oh and end of 2019
coming into 2020 i said no more
no more and in 2020 there was
no more did i have hurts
and triggers absolutely but did i get in
the bed
no how do we help people how what is do
you have people close to you
what do you do if somebody tells you hey
i’m
down and depressed if you know i don’t
know
your experience or we know your
experience with it what are some of the
things that maybe we can help people
be like okay definitely don’t say that
you know some of the cool
things that you know i do i think that’s
a great question and one of the
first things is i tell them thank you
like
thank you for telling me that that’s so
good acknowledging it yeah because i
love them so much and i know how hard it
is
to admit that sometimes and to just say
thank you for sharing your life with me
like that and i will
be here i’ll pray for you i’ll talk
through anything you want me to
we can do what you want we can pray
together i can pray for you and keep it
to myself
we can we can look at the word together
but i think being there
for them is more important than anything
else that i know of i was just talking
to a friend last night it’s a
friend of mike and ice and he struggles
with depression so he was just sharing
what that experience has been like and i
was i told him i’m so appreciative of
you opening up about this i know it’s
not easy to talk about and
he was saying how he and his wife have
been together so long she’s
learned like when he when he’s in that
place
and so she knows sometimes he doesn’t
need to talk
yeah and so it’s learning that from what
i took from him learning that person
and respecting what they might need
because he said usually he can be over
like the next day might be better
and so it’s not pushing them but sort of
going at their pace
i found that was really interesting just
that’s what worked for them
and that’s a form of being there for
that person right verbally or non-verbal
different for each person like what do
you need but sometimes being there for
them
also means some tough love yeah yeah
sure you don’t let someone
stay in that dark dark place
you’re there to help them even if it’s
just incredible intercessory prayer i’m
not going to give up on them
i’m going to keep telling them that god
loves them and has a good plan for them
even if they don’t want to hear it
not to the point where it hurts our
relationships but i’m not going to give
up on them
that’s why jay calls me nosy
we stop calling you nosy we call you
karen aaron yeah not nosy rosie
my initial name was josie and then we
were like okay
here’s one of the things that i like to
um
just share with people that get people
that come to them to say like oh i’m
struggling with this it could be
depression or
anything we have we have so many
resources now
like long gone are they like the excuses
of like oh i don’t know what to do
it’s called google you know like i mean
i’m not saying that google knows
everything but there are so many helpful
tips out there to say like how to deal
with the friend that’s
struggling with depression what are some
things to say and what not to say
you know like it’s so much out there now
that we have to if we really
care about the person taking and that’s
with any topic that’s what anything that
your friends are struggling with like
taking that personal
like accountability to say i’m going to
google to see yes
i’m going to ask i’ll call other doctors
because if you care
yeah you have to be invested in doing it
but one of the things that i’ve told
even friends because i’ve come out of
depression before and because i’ve felt
myself spiraling a little bit yeah
you know is i like it’s one of the
things you kind of said it’s like
the healing takes time the decision can
be
instant you know like once you realize
that the decision to say i’m not gonna
i’m not gonna lose to this like yeah
this can’t win over me that can be in a
moment
so like if you’re struggling with it
right now you can make you can
even if you feel very very weak you can
make a decision and say god with your
help
me man with your help like i don’t have
to deal with this anymore i mean i can
be done with this
i can be done with this right now yes
but you have to understand
that the healing takes time that’s the
part that was the hardest for me was
because
i wanted it to be as instant as my words
were and that wasn’t the case it’s still
not the case i still
struggle with certain parts of my life
and what’s going on
and you’re not a bad christian because
you still struggle exactly
it’s a process but the healing part
takes time
yeah and only god can determine that
time but as long as you do the work
as long as you make those decisions as
long as you make the decision to say
like because i wasn’t ashamed
to not listen to worship music i was
disappointed
i didn’t want to hear any more music
that this music i
sang to people i didn’t want to hear it
anymore i didn’t because i sang and i’m
like how could this happen to me
i was not ashamed i was just mad and
it’s okay to say like i’m disappointed
i’m angry
i’m angry i don’t want to sing i don’t
want to listen but at some point you’re
going to have to understand that that’s
the medicine you need to get yourself
right
so you have to make the decision like i
don’t want to hear it then you just
listen
have it playing in the background and
eventually you’ll start singing it you
know just take it
be gracious to yourself but uh
understand that the healing
takes time but the decision can be right
now
so that takes like a little crack in
that darkness for
hope and light to seep in you need
just a little crack sometimes to
to begin to make that statement that you
said you know
this this is where i’m going to fight
back
yeah and you say no more exactly and i
surrender and i raise my hands there are
moments where i’m walking around in my
condo with the musical
my hands are raised okay because
worship does help with everything it
helps with worry it helps with anxiety
it helps with depression
it helps dealing with any with any other
unfortunate situation or diagnosis that
you had
worship at the end of the day it does
help it’s just not
just don’t be like me or with what jay
is saying just
you know um because the enemy wants to
snatch
your prayers and your worship because
his whole plan is to steal
kill and destroy and if when he gets you
by yourself
he can do whatever he wants with you and
then you come in agreement with that
and you walk in that and um
before you know it you you can be out of
here
permanently yeah and you you have to
then you have to also then pivot from
just listening
to opening your mouth amen that’s right
wield your weapon
like because a lot of times we listen to
music or we
we read the words silently and don’t oh
and i realized in my pit of like my
lowest pitch
i remember just yes
it was oh it’s gripping like and
sometimes just
you know it’s it’s crazy like and so i
remember that and i know like how i even
sometimes feel
in this whole season of healing is like
you just
it’s like i want to my heart wants to
but you just have to make a sound
you have to will yourself to wield your
weapon you go from
listening to the music listening to the
sermon online listening to the
all that listening to the podcast great
great great great great great but at
some point
you’re going to open your own mouth
because he wants to hear your worship
and satan needs to hear your specific
voice to cast him out you have to use
your words it’s so good
so and let the word of god seep into
that
one little crack of hope yeah that that
you begin to see open up i mean there’s
so many amazing scriptures
of who god wants to be in our lives he’s
the lover of our soul
he’s the healer of our deepest darkest
hurts
he is that hope in the most hopeless
situation
and just like jay said write down those
scriptures
and like you said michelle don’t be
ashamed to reach out and get the help
that you need
whether it’s professionally maybe it’s
medication
because you know this this is not just
something that is
um be because there’s something wrong
with me
i made a mistake i did something that i
deserve this
and that’s how we feel sometimes when
we’re in that dark place
it’s not that we deserve it sometimes we
need some
physical help to get our body through
this
as well as our soul and spiritually so
it’s just a whole thing in it that’s so
good we take ibuprofen
for headaches you know maybe you know
when if you go to the hospital for food
poisoning
they’re going to give you an iv for
nausea and an
iv they’re going to pump your stomach in
that bag
let’s get the bad stuff out okay yeah
from your electrolytes they’re gonna
hydrate you
so you know and i didn’t want to get too
you know medical
but when you brought up medication that
that’s an option too
you know and maybe it doesn’t have to be
permanent i don’t know the situation
you know for me you know yes medication
was involved
um but because i believe you know i’m
taking it for
if i have a headache for ibuprofen a
headache for ibuprofen
for a headache then maybe it can take
something um
for anxiety that will lead to depression
so just you know
like we said get go go go see somebody
and have no shame about it like you
don’t have to
broadcast it to everybody unless you
feel led one day and you feel it’s going
to inspire make
impact and change and save a life go for
it i’m with you on that
um but like you said um definitely
don’t don’t have any shame of talking
to somebody however when when you said
that
about prayer and therapy i can just hear
so many christians going
uh-uh are you taking away the power of
god
exactly and that’s not how it works
because
when when you talk about prayer
god’s hands aren’t tied by anything
so he gives us the ability
to have medical advancement so i just
love that you’re saying that and i think
it’s so important
that we as christians can stop
blaming one another for the problems
that we face
stop putting shame on it if we need
extra help
and can look at it in a holistic
approach like we do everything else in
our life
as long as god is the focus and we’re
not trusting
something else over him but if we’re
putting them together
i think that’s hugely important yeah
i’ve heard uh
dr dr anita phillips say i believe i’m
i’m quoting it correctly you know prayer
is a weapon
therapy is a strategy so i know that
after i leave therapy
i pray and like now jesus you heard what
she said so thi
and i feel like my prayers have become
even more specific
it’s like after you get a doctor’s
report you pray specifically according
to what that doctor said
well we’re going to close with with a
little bit of encouragement from joyce
but before we do that michelle is there
anything that you would say
because you’re talking to our friends
who may be in that place
where you were a few years ago
what what is the
best advice that you would give them to
hang on to that hope that’s out there
because he lives i can face
tomorrow because he
lives all fear is gone
and yes i know
who holds my future this is the advice
and your life is worth
the living just because he lives
that’s awesome oh my god
[Laughter]
oh wow yeah i try to sit down here
sometimes you know
come on girls let’s go i’ll never do it
again
you don’t want it um yeah
yeah life is worth the lord the lord
has you here for a reason i contemplated
many times
but my life is worth living that’s right
simply because he lives yeah that even
simply
what it took for him yeah to die
for us to live to live again
yeah yeah you know so good yeah well
friends we love you so much we’re so
glad that you’ve been here with us and
we just pray that you can
hold on to something today that you
heard that
god who loves you so much and has so
much ahead for you for your future
will bring that little glimmer of hope
and light into your life we do have a
free resource for you today because
we love you we want to get the word into
your hand so go to joycemeyer.org
talk it out and get the free resource
called overcoming depression
we hope that you’ll do what god asks you
to do
and most importantly i i think i want
you to hear this
there is no shame in your pain that’s
good
there’s only shame that’s being put on
you from satan and you don’t have to
take that
you can right now just like michelle
said just like jay said
you can say no and it’s not going to
happen overnight it’s a slow process
but we see it sitting right here
it’s real and there’s hope for you so we
just love you so
much we want you to know that you matter
and we’re going to close
with this encouragement from joyce as we
say goodbye thank you again michelle
thank you thank you for having me don’t
let this be the last time
it’s just michelle again we’ll see y’all
next time
bye there’s one person that the devil
cannot defeat
and that’s somebody who refuses to give
up
every time you find yourself in a pit
skip the guilt trip
climb out i got to keep saying skip the
guilt trip because
if you make a mistake one time and you
realize it
and now you start feeling guilty it’s
going to weaken you
and help you fall right back into the
same trap again
guilt does nothing good for us at all
repent go on about your business paul
said one thing i do
one thing i do the great apostle paul
one thing i do it is my one
aspiration letting go of the things that
are behind
and pressing toward the things
that are ahead and that is your
privilege today whether you’re in this
building or watching by tv
no matter how many mistakes you’ve made
no matter what kind of pit you find
yourself in right now
the answer from god is very simple
talk to god about it repent climb back
out of the pit
make a good decision that’s going to
override the bad decision
skip the guilt trip and go on if you
fall in again
do it again if you fall in again do it
again if you fall in again
do it again and no matter how many times
it takes
you will wear the devil out if you don’t
give up