Are physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit offensive to you, or do you find it hard to tell if a manifestation is of the Holy Spirit or not? Bill Johnson and Larry Sparks discuss unusual manifestations of the Holy Spirit, and the ultimate goal of seeing the Kingdom of God impacting and transforming lives around us.
because we tend to enjoy the move of god
in the four walls of the church but
don’t know how to take it out
and the answer isn’t to as you said
necessarily go into costco and
and see you know half the room fall
under god’s power and shake i mean
that’s wonderful i i don’t want to
lessen that but if if you work at costco
how do you take that into the
marketplace
welcome everyone to pentecost today
larry sparks your host i actually feel
like this is a very timely discussion
because the good news is that revival is
not a theory it’s not a concept we are
actually in a move of god right now i
believe it’s going to be the consummate
move of god that will increase that will
expand until jesus comes back and in
just a moment i’m going to have someone
on who is not a revival theorist
he’s a revival practitioner somebody
who’s like i’ve been i mean he’s really
impacted my life significantly so what a
joy to be able to work with amazing
folks like pastor bill johnson
it’s been a while i i
oh goodness i always love coming out to
be at bethel because that is a place i
mean
you know what for some of those who may
not be familiar could you just give us a
little of the context of what happened
at bethel because you you arrived there
and was it 1995 or 96 96 february 96
yeah yeah and i want you to talk because
you you you came in there really with an
assignment for revival but i always love
it when you share about that first i
guess it was a first gathering or prayer
meeting where the holy spirit fell but
in a very different way than perhaps we
would expect tell us that story because
i love that
yeah absolutely
the eldership of the church asked us to
come and be the pastors here because of
the revival we were seeing in
weaverville which is where we were
pastoring we came here and one of the
first sunday nights i invited everyone
to the front
just i guess just to kind of pray
together and so they several hundred
people crowded around the front
and my wife and i were standing there
together and we just prayed that simple
prayer that’s become very famous holy
spirit come
and as we prayed that prayer the power
of god fell wonderfully and beautifully
but noticeably only on one person so
we’ve got i don’t know how many hundreds
of people are crowded around the front
but the power of god
in a noticeable way fell on only one
person and that person ended up
under the weight of the glory just
collapsing to the ground
and
and my wife and i looked at each other
and we said
we’ve got it
it’s now unstoppable
and a part of part of what god does in
our life is he gives us what we ask for
but he often gives it gives it to us in
seed form
and this the responsibility of
stewardship is essential
to grow into what god is wanting to do
in us so we we honestly felt like man
this is it this this will change
everything
and we looked at each other said this is
it it is now unstoppable
and we recognized in our heart of hearts
that this was uh the cloud the size of a
man’s hand as the prophet recognized at
one point in the old testament this is
the cloud the size of a man’s hand
and so all we did from that point on was
just to give honor to what god was doing
we didn’t
we we didn’t become uh
jaded or resistant because of what
wasn’t happening we didn’t
we didn’t
critique
the move of god according to our
quote unquote brilliant understanding of
revival we just simply learned in that
season just to follow him and just to to
celebrate whatever he was doing
and sometimes what he was doing was you
know extremely wonderful you know when
you have somebody who’s born deaf
they’ve never heard in their life and
their ears open up i mean that’s that
it’s logical that we would celebrate
that but there are other times what he
was doing was not quite as logical and
but we still
no matter how small or big it was
we just learned really as a as a
discipline to celebrate whatever he was
doing so that that was uh that was that
particular evening and uh and it
mushroomed from that point on
you know it’s funny i first discovered
bethel oh it had to be 2007 2008 and i
was hearing the unusual reports
uh what god was doing touching people
healing people and it’s so connected
with my spirit and it made me hungry and
it’s it’s interesting i think of it had
to be last year you were there as well i
believe at cheons he does his yearly
summit in pasadena
and uh cindy jacobs was there she she
prayed for me she called me up on stage
prayed for me prophesied and i i just as
sometimes people do fell under the power
of god shaking trembling not because i
wanted to look cool but because i i
couldn’t do anything else other than
that and a mutual friend of ours pastor
bill caught it on video good old lance
wall now and he’s getting a video of me
and i’m literally like i’m like oh i
don’t know how i’m gonna explain this
people because he not only caught it on
video he put it up on facebook
and i and this is just the funniest
thing and i share this because i think
we can relate in that experience where i
know i know i wasn’t making that up i
would have preferred not to have done
that
um but i remember thinking to myself i’m
going to tell lance to pull that down
and the lord actually said don’t you
dare and this is what i thought i told
the lord i said but god that’s going to
destroy the last iota of a reputation i
have and he’s not good
um and it it makes me think pastor bill
i mean something you hold so sacred when
the holy spirit touched you
why do you think i mean this is just for
us to ponder you know why do you think
he does things that are a bit
undignified and out of the box and maybe
things that would almost cause our flesh
to be offended sometimes
because you can either have great faith
or you can have dignity
oh it’s it’s uh
you don’t get both you don’t get both
you have to you have to lay down your
right to certain things to enter into
the fullness of what he’s provided for
us
and you can’t carry self-preservation
into a move of god
it must be the offering
and the fire always falls on sacrifice
so he
he comes in those moments of where we
offer ourselves the goal isn’t to look
dumb you know nobody in the right mind
is going to do something to somehow
you know gain some credibility or
attention it doesn’t make any sense
but at the same time he’s god
he is god and he enjoys being god he
wants to be lord he wants to be lord
over all that i am and do and and
sometimes it’s costly in that sense
and but the wonderful thing is that he
always has the last say
so even if i look like a fool in one
moment that moment prepares me to
operate in great authority where he’s
glorified so it’s it’s just worth it
it’s worth it it’s a
it’s it’s costly but it’s more rewarding
than costly so
that’s how i have to look at it well and
you know one of the things that i’ve
noticed even um pre azusa street pre
1906 it’s interesting when people think
of manifestations of the spirit you know
the common ones of people falling down
or shaking and trembling etc and they
almost think that that was a pentecostal
um invention when in fact i mean what
what i love pastor bill is your robust
knowledge of revival history and if we
were to look back to every move of god
particularly the evangelical ones i love
looking at evangelical revivals with
jonathan edwards the wesley brothers
because that same phenomenon happened
um
well i mean
let me ask you this because something i
like to say
and
i always like to say it for reaction i
say i don’t tolerate this the
manifestations of the holy spirit i
celebrate them
um
because i don’t want him to just feel
like we’re we’re just doing what we can
and it’s like well i don’t really like
that stuff but we’ll go with it how have
you
in a church like bethel how have you all
navigated over the years just the
unusual
manifestations of the spirit because it
is the flesh it’s the flesh responding
to god what what are just some things
you’ve learned navigating uh some of
those
aspects of revival
probably the the most important thing
for me is that i have for example i’ve
seen people tremble
under the power of god
i’ve seen them tremble because they
wanted attention
i’ve seen them tremble because of a
demonic presence in their life and it
all looks the same
you only grade things by the external by
the manifestation you’ll miss it
two-thirds of the time
and uh what we do is we’re we continue
to learn how to recognize
what he’s doing by recognizing the
presence when you sense that the spirit
of god is at work there’s a different
atmosphere around that manifestation if
they are doing it to get attention we
don’t openly rebuke them and send them
out of the room we’ll just have somebody
quietly pray for them and minister to
them if it’s a demonic issue then we
have somebody not to draw attention we
don’t uh the the enemy loves to
humiliate people that he has tormented
and so we we dial that way down take the
authority and bring a real deliverance
but when it’s the holy spirit you know
you just stay out of the way
you just do whatever you can to
contribute to what god is doing
uh in the right moments and then other
than that just let god do what he’s
doing
so
for me
that shaking illustration is the example
of following him in any
any uh given setting uh where the spirit
of god is moving is you just cooperate
and don’t get in his way
you know really the first um
the first word i ever heard the lord
speak to me
uh as just a young man
was was a word about staying out of his
way
if you’ll stay out of my way i will use
you in no small way if you’ll stay out
of my way and so from the very beginning
i realized i’m
my understanding of a situation is not a
prerequisite for god to move
i can’t limit him by what i understand
i can’t reject something because
he didn’t show it to me first that’s
real arrogant it’s very arrogant to say
well that can’t be god why because well
it’s never happened to me
or i’ve never seen that in scripture
before we are really required in this
journey to learn to recognize by two
things really by the presence of god
that is manifest in a given situation
and by the life that comes from that
that situation
and and sometimes the what’s going on
around us is so distracting i’ve i uh
i’ve had in times past i’ve been an
environment where what was happening was
so distracting i just i just would close
my eyes and become aware oh this is this
is the holy spirit this is what we
recognize in worship this is what we’ve
seen for years when we pray for people
and so that brings me into a peace to
realize he’s doing something different
that i’m accustomed to but i’m not going
to resist it i’m not going to defile it
with my
opinion
and so that’s that’s been the huge
journey for me it continues
wow i and i love that because that’s
really where i got that context where in
a gathering you might have
people who are shaking and it could be
holy spirit touching them it could be
them trying to get it attention or
demonic manifestation but i remember
hearing you one time share well you know
what because so many of us get so scared
that it could be something demonic well
the good news is that somebody who’s
been bound has come into proximity to
the presence of god to such a degree
that that demon’s uncomfortable like you
say well if you spot him you got him
if it’s manifesting and coming to the
surface because of that then we know
exactly what to do so i i do i do feel
pastor bill in this season we’re in
right now where um just again we cannot
express enough honor and gratitude for
you bethel because now we’re seeing
revival multiply
i i i know you’re seeing it from your
end just so many of our peers are out on
the front lines whether it’s in tents or
buildings or beaches
and so much of what you all really paid
a price for
in learning these types of things
we are learning how now to navigate um
so it’s it’s it’s encouraging
it’s encouraging
um
and i do want to give a quick mention
because i was thinking in your book open
heavens here this again i’m so grateful
for this book because this i would
recommend as an essential guidebook to
navigating revival but you have you have
a section right here page 93 um were you
right so who was offended
because uh
often i think we’re afraid
um and even even those of us with the
best of intentions i i’ve been there
where we’re a little bit afraid of the
holy spirit doing what he wants to do
because we’re afraid somebody might be
offended but you note that um typically
it’s it’s really like people who don’t
know the lord
they’re not often offended by that type
of thing i think it brings an intrigue
to them when they see holy spirit moving
like that
it’s it is a fascinating thing to watch
how many believers have been trained
against something will be offended but
the unbeliever who is just coming to the
meeting for whatever reason
they are they’re enthralled they’re
amused they’re curious they’re they’re
anything but offended and uh it really
is a fascinating journey
you know actually
it’s it’s almost like the unbeliever
looks in a meeting like that and they go
well god should be here and if if he’s
as big as he says he is then there
should be things happening that that we
don’t understand and they just seem at
least on average they just seem to
adjust better than those who have been
trained against certain things
and uh so that’s it’s a it’s a
fascinating
experiment that we are all in
for sure
well and again you note and i think you
know it talks about how on the day of
pentecost that sound was released
um
and it’s that sound that actually
brought three thousand people it it
doesn’t say the multitude came because
they heard the really cool hit preacher
or they saw a light show
and listen we’re all about excellence i
always tell people i don’t ever want to
pick on stuff because i’d rather have
professionalism versus pots and pans up
there us you know clanging things out
but uh but at the end of the day it’s
like through it all
do do do the multitudes hear the sound
of the outpouring of the spirit um
and uh
so i’ve gotta i’ve gotta ask you kind of
with that in mind
what what do you think it looks like
because you do such a wonderful job
training discipling people to take what
they experience in revival
but to translate it wherever they go
i’ve heard you say you know you can’t
you know if you want to carry revival
into costco
you don’t necessarily go to little book
the book aisle and fall down on the
ground and shake um but what is that
what does that look like to translate
revival from the meeting to the
marketplace
you know i really
really seriously think as you know that
this is a key point
for us having the transformational
impact on the world around us because we
tend to enjoy the move of god in the
four walls of the church but don’t know
how to take it out
and the answer isn’t to as you said
necessarily go into costco and
and see you know half the room fall
under god’s power and shake i mean
that’s wonderful i i don’t want to
lessen that but if if you work at costco
how do you translate the fact that
sunday night you laid under the power of
god you trembled for two hours you
walked you woke up you don’t know what
happened but you know something is
different how do you take that into the
marketplace it’s not by hoping people
fall under god’s power
it’s by becoming the courageous person
that two-hour encounter was supposed to
create
before you were under the power of god
you would fear man when there was a
group decision needed to be made at work
and you would yield to maybe an ungodly
voice or an ungodly idea or a
compromising situation but now this fire
burns in your soul and it’s not that you
stand and and speak uh in an unnatural
way it’s just that you’re willing to
speak when it’s time to speak you have
the courage to share the word of the
lord in a difficult situation and even
in those moments sometimes you’re
immediately rejected
but uh but in the long term god
validates the wisdom of your words
and uh and i i know of people who in uh
boardroom type settings uh will bring
such a powerful word and they’re not
even uh in the natural they’re not even
equipped with all the training that they
need to be on that board but they’ll be
in this marketplace this business room
uh environment and they are so sensitive
to what god is saying that everybody
anticipates now whether they’re going to
do that thing and he says what thing
says you know that thing where you say
something and the atmosphere with all
room changes
and so people become unknowingly
discipled
by valuing the presence of god we have
in town we have
people who will call the church first
when they need employees
and they’re not believers but they’ll do
it because
what they’ve noticed is when we hire
somebody from your church they change
the atmosphere of my business they don’t
know this but they are being discipled
to live by and to recognize and to value
the presence of the holy spirit and
that’s that’s what we do is we translate
it we take all right what’s the effect
of god on me and this that has happened
in this outpouring
what is that supposed to make me for the
benefit of my city
not how they can benefit our church but
how do i now as a courageous one
benefit my city benefit my neighborhood
and so i i think that
translating revival into
a public setting is really
different than what we’ve expected
we we keep hoping the
the kinds of things that happened in a
service would happen in public and they
do occasionally but if that’s our only
target we will miss the opportunity that
god’s given to everybody and that’s to
live under the influence of the spirit
of god in a marketplace setting so that
with loving kindness and compassion
and boldness i can serve the people
around me
pastor bill as we i mean time has flown
by but i’d love for you to just pray for
those watching because as you were
talking about that
i just you know it’s one of those things
where
i i do believe we are coming up on a
season where there’s this grace in the
air you can feel it um for revival and i
it’s a sovereign you know it’s sovereign
and stewardship and you talk about that
in the book as well um where
i don’t know we’ve we’ve been at least
for us personally in the last five six
weeks we’ve been in multiple meetings
where we sense the grace in the air to
where there is such a hunger for god
i’m not quite sure what the landscape’s
going to look like in the days ahead in
terms of extended meetings in terms of
just what we’ve seen in other periods in
history but what you’re talking about
what you talk about in this book and we
don’t even have time this is a whole
other broadcast about revival
reformation or renaissance
because i i’m convinced that the key to
sustained revival in the church will be
the deployment of revivalists into the
marketplace the deployment of
revivalists into every sphere people
saturated by the presence of god who
know exactly what you’re talking about
they can translate it to wherever
they’re called to show up and
you know pastor bill i feel there’s a
grace even right now for you just to
pray into that so for those of you who
are watching and listening would you
just receive this because god is calling
you again
i believe in our church context we are
going to see
a wonderful period i’m not going to call
it a period i believe it’s going to be
the habitation of the holy spirit but he
wants to deploy us and he wants to send
holy spirit saturated people to wherever
you’re called to go so would you mind
praying pastor bill
absolutely you know i loved your father
we turn our hearts to you
we turn our entire life to you
and i’m asking that you would mark each
person
watching this broadcast in fact their
entire immediate family
that you would mark them with the
presence of god and the glory of god
that something would happen in our lives
where we live with an awareness of you
that’s not just the result of discipline
it’s the result of your overwhelming
presence
and we pray that for ourselves
for our families but we also pray
that through that you’d provide the
feast
the banqueting table for our cities to
come and dine and taste and see that the
lord is good
i pray that i pray that cities would be
marked by the presence of god in ways
we’ve never known before
and i do ask this for the glory of god
that jesus would be exalted
amen amen amen amen
well for all of our friends who are
watching thank you so much for joining
us for this discussion today
pastor bill’s book open heavens is
available
now again
it’s always such a joy to connect with
you pastor bill thanks
thanks it’s fun to be with you always
love it love it love it all right well
thank you destiny image uh folks for
watching on youtube and uh we look
forward to seeing you again real soon
all right
bye