How do you position yourself to encounter the God of revival? Join Bill Johnson and Larry Sparks as they discuss Bill’s new book on revival, Open Heavens. Revival is to be the normal Christian life.

all right well hey everybody larry

sparks here with pastor bill johnson

this is kind of a sequel

to the video that we did previously um

it’s it’s fun to be here with you

actually live and in person well it’s

good to see you i’m glad you’re in

reading

yes we love you we love to be here uh

you know as much as i’m appreciative for

the zoom stuff and all that there’s

nothing that beats being somewhere

exactly um particularly in proximity to

a place like this where the holy spirit

is moving so strongly and

um i i want to ask you this again i

i don’t know

how deep of a theological answer we can

give on this but when it comes to god

moving somewhere because you just

literally just releasing this book uh

open heavens that’s coming out like any

day now i think it’s september 18th is

the formal release date you can get it

on amazon you can go to bethel anywhere

books are sold it’s available we’re

excited about that i want to ask you

that when it comes to revival um some

people really

emphasize the sovereignty of god god

will just choose a place or a people

some really emphasize the stewardship of

man like what do we do i mean charles

finney i think did a wonderful job

emphasizing that what what do you think

is the intersection of the sovereignty

of god

and what we do when it comes to revival

the old testament says god lights the

fire on the altar it’s the priests that

keep it burning

so people typically come to the

conclusion that revival ended because

god willed for it to end

well if a fire dies out that god lit

it’s because the priest didn’t keep it

burning and it just comes down to

responsibility there’s responsibility

for both god

has just sovereignly started things

absolutely sure and i uh certain and i

would never want to take away from

those unusual sovereign visitations

but there’s also great testimony and

record of people that just really

hungered their way into great

breakthrough

and it’s not either or it’s they’re

supposed to work together but but i look

for you know that which god ignited in

the hearts of people and then look at

the responsibility you know if i’m

involved i’ve got to keep it burning

i’ve got to do whatever i can

to make sure that fire continues yeah

you know it’s interesting one of the

things i wanted to talk about

specifically for this is

where we are right now in our culture in

our nation in our nations i know there’s

a lot of anxiety fear is really

paralyzing people

i mean i was even looking through my i

mean

we do it out of necessity we want to we

want to use social media for the kingdom

but it can be inundating with all sorts

of bad reports and stuff

but how would you encourage somebody

right now as as dark as it seems to be i

mean history does give us a record of

god breaking in at times like this how

would you encourage the everyday

believer right now who might be

wrestling through the anxiety and fear

of where we are right now in history how

would you encourage them that you know

what god

has loved to move in times like this

well the first thing is don’t subject

yourself to the voice of fear

you know

perhaps it’s easier said than done but

we don’t have to

we don’t have to ingest all that garbage

i mean i i just won’t do it if i i you

know when i travel i go into an airport

lounge if the news is on i go to a

different part of the airport

i was in a hospital room the other day a

waiting room and the news was on right

above me nobody else was in there i

reached up and turned it off or turned

the volume down so i couldn’t hear it

it’s there’s reasons for that it’s uh

fear attracts whatever information is

necessary to legitimize its existence

wow and so fear will always defend

itself and it will always look like the

intelligent thing to do it will always

look like wisdom

but fear masquerades as wisdom and we

just have to be insulated from that

and the moment i start losing hope i’ll

bow to the wrong thing

the moment i start losing hope in a

situation i will be influenced by

something that’s wrong

and and it will somehow infect or affect

my affections

and my affections have to be

you know really do have to be anchored

in the lord himself and his nature

historically

god

just the greatest outpourings of the

spirit happened in times of the greatest

darkness

and it’s not that god needs that

you know to do something great

but sometimes we just don’t get hungry

enough and humble enough until we see

this thing’s out of control it’s out of

our hands we can’t turn this only god

can heal this

that

is actually a position of strength and

if we can recognize the moment god’s

leading us into then we’ll pray

effectively because it will be with that

absolute abandonment that’s what we need

you know while we were filming and we

we’ve been filming the last couple days

of curriculum for open heavens you made

a statement heard you make it before but

i think it’s very relevant in terms of

like

we can either react to the devil

or we can respond to the father and i

know personally

i have prayed prayers that sounded like

i was reacting to the devil

what’s the difference between those two

things because that’s highly relevant

for where we are right now well you know

we hate the works of the devil we’re

supposed to yes and we see where the

devil kills steals destroys you know and

we’re supposed to be

rocked by that but that that he has done

does not set my agenda

i don’t live in response or reaction to

what he’s doing

otherwise he actually can controls my

agenda or influences it he’s not worthy

yeah jesus set a different standard he

only did what he saw the father do he

heard for example

uh news that lazarus was sick

and it says

um

he stayed two more days yeah so he he

wasn’t moved even by a close personal

friend that he had great affection for

it didn’t change his schedule the crisis

didn’t change his schedule

it

it had a place

but he didn’t live by that he lived in

response to the father so he didn’t go

to

bring in this case resurrection he

didn’t go until it was time to go wow so

the point is is jesus himself wasn’t

moved the disciples would come and say

we got this crowd of people that really

need you they want you you know and he’d

say i was sent to go through the

through all of israel so let’s go to

this next city and so there was this um

there’s this thing that he did where he

just he demonstrated

it’s worthwhile just to follow the

father

to do what he’s doing and that’s what we

have to learn to do because uh

you almost get points in the christian

world if you live in reaction to the

devil you show up by your anger by your

you know your rough decrees of god’s

judgment yeah all these things you can

you can almost almost gain credibility

in the eyes of many yes by uh by your

reaction to the devil but it just

doesn’t it doesn’t mark eternity the way

jesus did when he responded to the

father he would do it the father’s way

and it always worked always worked well

i think that’s even vital when it comes

to praying for revival or looking for

what god is doing right now because i

think when we’re always reacting to

crisis and darkness and that type of

thing it almost blinds us

to what god is actually doing

and one of the things that you talk

about is in the world or in the natural

when we don’t eat

we get hungry

but i love how you say that in the

kingdom and actually i feel like the

lord is releasing a grace right now for

those of you who are watching because i

i know listen i’ve been bombarded with

all the same stuff like absolutely i’ve

been i’ve been in the

uh auto shops i’ve been in the places

where news is being i wish i did what

you did i i i i might have to take that

as a as an example and turn it off if

there’s nobody else in there that’s a

good but um but i want to encourage you

like if you feel bombarded right now by

fear anxiety even hopelessness this idea

of god you know the world just so dark

is it possible for things to change is

it possible for things to shift i i

believe it is and one of the things that

i believe will feed people is like you

talk about

in the kingdom to get hungry what do you

do yeah in the kingdom you get hungry by

eating yeah it’s the opposite of the

natural world

and so if uh if i’m a weakened area of

generosity or

or prayer or family life or whatever it

might be if i expose myself to

somebody who’s successful their their

story their testimony their example yeah

of the writings uh uh

i refer to

if i’m weak in prayer and i want to grow

in that area i’m just not hungry for it

um i’ll read something like by e.m

bounds it was a classic a writer on

prayer and you can’t help but get hungry

you read his stuff you just

you just repent and pray all at the same

time yes and so you just expose yourself

to truth yeah and it creates hunger so

um

just be intentional yeah don’t be lazy

be intentional well and i want to

encourage you because one of the things

that i love i know pastor bill does as

well is revival history yeah um and

don’t don’t tune out because i said the

word history it’s this is not some just

academic thing i think revival history

is really that living testimony that’s

right of what god has done

how would you say

all right i’m going to give you a

challenge and again in open heavens um

it’s a the book is very practical it’s

very relevant very now

um

you you did the book defining moments

which is more of a revival history book

how would you say to the everyday

believer why would it be important to

study

past moves of god or even people like

wigglesworth or john g like that god has

used in the past what does that do or

how is it relevant to us now

because as people we tend to want to

justify

where we’re at in life

and so what we do is

is

say the what i’m experiencing is the

normal christian life

and when you read history and you see

that even a hundred years ago 200 years

ago there were times where they had

greater measure presence of power of

kingdom being manifested in church life

than we do now 200 years later certainly

god intended us to go from glory to

glory yes so when you read that it it

exposes

the fact that if we get lazy

uh we sleep on the job

things decline but if we become provoked

as people of hunger people with

authority that move in to see something

happen

then it changes and so i i just love

reading you know john g lake and his

his uh exploits his what you know what

he accomplished just moves me

wiggles were all these guys you know

yeah amy simple mcpherson

um to read their

stories man it’s not it’s not boring

stories it’s stuff that provokes you to

to life to a life change

you say god if you did it for that

person you know respective persons yes

and you’re the same yesterday today

forever so that means what you did then

you want to do now so i want you to i

want to be involved you know i don’t

have to be the center of it but i want

to be in the room you know yeah and uh

so that’s that’s kind of how it works

for me is i i use it to provoke me yeah

and i love reading their stories because

i love to ask the question what did they

do i mean we’re obviously not working to

try to gain

favor from god but looking at their

lives okay god what did what did they do

one of the things that i learned from

you

and i love the language and hosting the

presence you talk about what does it

look like for the spirit of god to rest

on somebody

and what i love about those people i

mean

i’m sure as people are listening right

now they think when they hear john g

lake or wigglesworth or kathryn kuhlman

well those are spiritual kind of

superheroes right and what i like about

them and i’d love for you to comment i

remember one time the holy spirit said

you know larry

if you actually start looking into their

lives i mean god’s generals is a great

place that gives you some perspective

for sure they were not perfect people

um

but i feel like going back to that point

that you talk about the spirit resting

upon you i feel like they were people

who recognize holy spirit i know you

live inside of me because i’m born again

what would it look like though for you

to rest upon me and i feel like they

pushed to see what that could look like

and what what would you say to the i

mean how do we learn from people like

those i mean how are how are they

relevant to us

and not some unattainable benchmark

well i guess first of all just repent

from the idea of elevating them above

their

god-given place yeah they they aren’t

super humans they are people you know

the scripture talks about elijah a man

of like passion yes you know same as we

are but he said yes at the right places

to god come on he said yes he just

trusted god he put himself at risk

and all of these guys you know and gals

they

they just said yes to god they just they

refused to sit by and make excuses yeah

and they just said yes and they obeyed

him they went out and

bought the tent you know to have the

revival meeting and they they would do

something outside of

ease and convenience and and really put

themselves at risk and god honored what

they did because

you know as wimber would say risk

faith is spelled risk and yes and god

would honor their faith and great things

would happen yeah so it’s just it’s

simplistic we just repent for

you know is we tend to either put people

down yes or we elevate them beyond reach

so that way nobody has influence on us

yeah and we’ve gotta we’ve gotta repent

from that and realize that god gave them

as examples yeah

well and and the reason i was bringing

that up is in the filming and i believe

also in the book you talk about honor

you know some of the things that you

talk about when it comes to revival

i and others were like i would have

never put that in a context for revival

how honor

actually positions us to experience the

move of god i mean

and folks just to let you know

the different things that we’re talking

about these are just some of the things

either sprinkled in the book that you’ve

talked about in the curriculum just

things i believe that are worth

highlighting concerning how do we

position ourselves for revival and just

to recap i mean again we pray in a way

where we’re not reacting to the devil

we’re responding to the father we feed

on the record on the testimony of what

god has done and even talking about some

of the leaders we were just mentioning i

think there is a principle could you

share what does honor look like in

revival how does that position us to

experience the presence of god like with

jesus in his own hometown

yeah you know you have to value

you have to value who a person is

without stumbling over who they’re not

really what it comes down to is is i

have to recognize all right the holy

spirit has chosen this person and he’s

put great favor anointing on them

and if i don’t like the way he dresses

or i don’t like the way she talks or i

don’t like you know

there’s all kinds of stumbling blocks

and sometimes our greatest breakthrough

is on the other side of a stumbling

block yeah it’s like with the

syrophoenician woman you know jesus uh

she wanted her daughter to be healed and

he said i can’t give the children’s

bread to dogs so he puts this stumbling

block in front of her that she had to

overcome to come into the area of

breakthrough that she was hungry for

and

you know it may seem unfair but you know

you’re not god he in wisdom knows what

to do

and uh and he knows

he knows what it takes for us to enter

into breakthrough and sustain it once we

get it yeah and he and his mercy gave

her an obstacle and uh and she responded

well so we just have to we have to deal

with the opportunities in front of us

and make no excuses yeah no excuses yeah

yeah yeah well again we just have a

couple of minutes left but

the book open heavens it’s available

it’s going to be available september

18th we’re doing a two-day filming right

now with pastor bill so that’ll be a

bible study that we’re putting together

around the topic of open heavens a

curriculum that’ll be available dvd and

e-course all those good things um the

last thing i want to ask you about and

we might just pray for the people

and you’ve talked about this in hosting

the presence you talked about it during

this filming uh and i love the scripture

isaiah 64 1 rend the heavens and come

down tear open the heavens and come down

and

you do such a wonderful job putting it

in balance because

the bible tells us everything that’s

available in our account this is

language you use and i love it it’s

available on our account but there’s a

difference between something that’s in

my spiritual bank account and what i

hold in my hand

what’s how does prayer

factor into all of that

oh goodness prayer

you know prayer is the backbone of every

great move of god but prayer without

action

nothing happens

it’s like you know as uh i like to

illustrate the walls of jericho once

they marched around the city and the

walls of jericho fell they still had to

go in and defeat the enemy yes you know

the enemy wasn’t dead the obstacle to

the victory was removed wow that’s what

prayer does is it removes the obstacle

there still has to be

faith to take action to move in and so

prayer really sets the stage for the

victories that we hunger for the long

for but

as we pray we have to follow up

you know and take action and that uh

without the action this stuff doesn’t

doesn’t happen yeah you know it just

there just isn’t the sustained

breakthrough

because i think it’s a combination of

intercession and activism and when i say

activism it’s not necessarily political

act it’s just it’s do exactly taking

action

um because often when you pray god will

tell you something to do

and i’ve i’ll have to be honest i’ve

prayed sometimes and god will speak to

me

and i’ll keep praying instead of doing

what he told me because sometimes it’s

easier to pray

so i do want to encourage you all though

um and i’ll have pastor bill pray as

well is uh

i i love that though run the heavens and

come down because you talk about how

heavens opened over jesus

when he was baptized

and how i find myself praying is this

lord i recognize and open heaven’s been

made available theologically the lord i

want to see what it looks like for

heaven to be torn open

over a person or a city or a region

um every person who has the holy spirit

has an open heaven over them

but the problem is as i interpret what’s

happening in the nation or what’s

happening in my city or what’s going on

with my neighbor yeah and take it

personal

and

think that i live under close heavens i

don’t i live in the open heavens why

because the holy spirit is in fellowship

with the father and there’s no demonic

realm that can block that so i have to i

owe it to him to live conscious of that

open heaven and pray accordingly i have

absolute access to the heart of the

father yeah yeah it doesn’t take ten

hours of belly aching to get hurt he’s a

he’s a father who loves me yes and that

open heaven has to be taken advantage of

yes you know so it’s uh that rend the

heavens thing is huge you know jesus uh

the holy spirit came upon him in the

form of a dove through a torn open

heaven yeah and the whole point of that

part of the story

is that open heavens

happen

to release the holy spirit upon jesus

and now upon us yeah so open heaven

exists where the holy spirit exists

would you just pray briefly for the

folks who are watching because i believe

the lord wants to stir that for all of

us absolutely yeah father

we are hungry and i’m

we’re hungry for the more we’re hungry

for what we’ve read about in history

we’re hungry for

what we hear happening around the world

we’re just hungry

and we know the crises that our nations

face

it’s not stuff we can fix

it’s beyond human repair

but it’s not beyond your repairs it’s

not beyond your grace

it’s not beyond your plan

and so we looked you with absolute

confidence wonderful

wonderful father

pour out your spirit upon every single

person watching this every single person

in such a way that we become a catholic

change in the part of the world that

you’ve planted us in

lord i do pray for a mighty mighty

outpouring of the spirit

and that together we would see jesus

exalted yes because both purity and

power

are normal in the church again yeah let

it be

let it be amen amen amen thanks thanks

all for joining us

and again the uh the book is available

september 18th but you can pre-order it

amazon or through bethel and we’ll see

you soon thanks everyone bye

you