How do you position yourself to encounter the God of revival? Join Bill Johnson and Larry Sparks as they discuss Bill’s new book on revival, Open Heavens. Revival is to be the normal Christian life.
all right well hey everybody larry
sparks here with pastor bill johnson
this is kind of a sequel
to the video that we did previously um
it’s it’s fun to be here with you
actually live and in person well it’s
good to see you i’m glad you’re in
reading
yes we love you we love to be here uh
you know as much as i’m appreciative for
the zoom stuff and all that there’s
nothing that beats being somewhere
exactly um particularly in proximity to
a place like this where the holy spirit
is moving so strongly and
um i i want to ask you this again i
i don’t know
how deep of a theological answer we can
give on this but when it comes to god
moving somewhere because you just
literally just releasing this book uh
open heavens that’s coming out like any
day now i think it’s september 18th is
the formal release date you can get it
on amazon you can go to bethel anywhere
books are sold it’s available we’re
excited about that i want to ask you
that when it comes to revival um some
people really
emphasize the sovereignty of god god
will just choose a place or a people
some really emphasize the stewardship of
man like what do we do i mean charles
finney i think did a wonderful job
emphasizing that what what do you think
is the intersection of the sovereignty
of god
and what we do when it comes to revival
the old testament says god lights the
fire on the altar it’s the priests that
keep it burning
so people typically come to the
conclusion that revival ended because
god willed for it to end
well if a fire dies out that god lit
it’s because the priest didn’t keep it
burning and it just comes down to
responsibility there’s responsibility
for both god
has just sovereignly started things
absolutely sure and i uh certain and i
would never want to take away from
those unusual sovereign visitations
but there’s also great testimony and
record of people that just really
hungered their way into great
breakthrough
and it’s not either or it’s they’re
supposed to work together but but i look
for you know that which god ignited in
the hearts of people and then look at
the responsibility you know if i’m
involved i’ve got to keep it burning
i’ve got to do whatever i can
to make sure that fire continues yeah
you know it’s interesting one of the
things i wanted to talk about
specifically for this is
where we are right now in our culture in
our nation in our nations i know there’s
a lot of anxiety fear is really
paralyzing people
i mean i was even looking through my i
mean
we do it out of necessity we want to we
want to use social media for the kingdom
but it can be inundating with all sorts
of bad reports and stuff
but how would you encourage somebody
right now as as dark as it seems to be i
mean history does give us a record of
god breaking in at times like this how
would you encourage the everyday
believer right now who might be
wrestling through the anxiety and fear
of where we are right now in history how
would you encourage them that you know
what god
has loved to move in times like this
well the first thing is don’t subject
yourself to the voice of fear
you know
perhaps it’s easier said than done but
we don’t have to
we don’t have to ingest all that garbage
i mean i i just won’t do it if i i you
know when i travel i go into an airport
lounge if the news is on i go to a
different part of the airport
i was in a hospital room the other day a
waiting room and the news was on right
above me nobody else was in there i
reached up and turned it off or turned
the volume down so i couldn’t hear it
it’s there’s reasons for that it’s uh
fear attracts whatever information is
necessary to legitimize its existence
wow and so fear will always defend
itself and it will always look like the
intelligent thing to do it will always
look like wisdom
but fear masquerades as wisdom and we
just have to be insulated from that
and the moment i start losing hope i’ll
bow to the wrong thing
the moment i start losing hope in a
situation i will be influenced by
something that’s wrong
and and it will somehow infect or affect
my affections
and my affections have to be
you know really do have to be anchored
in the lord himself and his nature
historically
god
just the greatest outpourings of the
spirit happened in times of the greatest
darkness
and it’s not that god needs that
you know to do something great
but sometimes we just don’t get hungry
enough and humble enough until we see
this thing’s out of control it’s out of
our hands we can’t turn this only god
can heal this
that
is actually a position of strength and
if we can recognize the moment god’s
leading us into then we’ll pray
effectively because it will be with that
absolute abandonment that’s what we need
you know while we were filming and we
we’ve been filming the last couple days
of curriculum for open heavens you made
a statement heard you make it before but
i think it’s very relevant in terms of
like
we can either react to the devil
or we can respond to the father and i
know personally
i have prayed prayers that sounded like
i was reacting to the devil
what’s the difference between those two
things because that’s highly relevant
for where we are right now well you know
we hate the works of the devil we’re
supposed to yes and we see where the
devil kills steals destroys you know and
we’re supposed to be
rocked by that but that that he has done
does not set my agenda
i don’t live in response or reaction to
what he’s doing
otherwise he actually can controls my
agenda or influences it he’s not worthy
yeah jesus set a different standard he
only did what he saw the father do he
heard for example
uh news that lazarus was sick
and it says
um
he stayed two more days yeah so he he
wasn’t moved even by a close personal
friend that he had great affection for
it didn’t change his schedule the crisis
didn’t change his schedule
it
it had a place
but he didn’t live by that he lived in
response to the father so he didn’t go
to
bring in this case resurrection he
didn’t go until it was time to go wow so
the point is is jesus himself wasn’t
moved the disciples would come and say
we got this crowd of people that really
need you they want you you know and he’d
say i was sent to go through the
through all of israel so let’s go to
this next city and so there was this um
there’s this thing that he did where he
just he demonstrated
it’s worthwhile just to follow the
father
to do what he’s doing and that’s what we
have to learn to do because uh
you almost get points in the christian
world if you live in reaction to the
devil you show up by your anger by your
you know your rough decrees of god’s
judgment yeah all these things you can
you can almost almost gain credibility
in the eyes of many yes by uh by your
reaction to the devil but it just
doesn’t it doesn’t mark eternity the way
jesus did when he responded to the
father he would do it the father’s way
and it always worked always worked well
i think that’s even vital when it comes
to praying for revival or looking for
what god is doing right now because i
think when we’re always reacting to
crisis and darkness and that type of
thing it almost blinds us
to what god is actually doing
and one of the things that you talk
about is in the world or in the natural
when we don’t eat
we get hungry
but i love how you say that in the
kingdom and actually i feel like the
lord is releasing a grace right now for
those of you who are watching because i
i know listen i’ve been bombarded with
all the same stuff like absolutely i’ve
been i’ve been in the
uh auto shops i’ve been in the places
where news is being i wish i did what
you did i i i i might have to take that
as a as an example and turn it off if
there’s nobody else in there that’s a
good but um but i want to encourage you
like if you feel bombarded right now by
fear anxiety even hopelessness this idea
of god you know the world just so dark
is it possible for things to change is
it possible for things to shift i i
believe it is and one of the things that
i believe will feed people is like you
talk about
in the kingdom to get hungry what do you
do yeah in the kingdom you get hungry by
eating yeah it’s the opposite of the
natural world
and so if uh if i’m a weakened area of
generosity or
or prayer or family life or whatever it
might be if i expose myself to
somebody who’s successful their their
story their testimony their example yeah
of the writings uh uh
i refer to
if i’m weak in prayer and i want to grow
in that area i’m just not hungry for it
um i’ll read something like by e.m
bounds it was a classic a writer on
prayer and you can’t help but get hungry
you read his stuff you just
you just repent and pray all at the same
time yes and so you just expose yourself
to truth yeah and it creates hunger so
um
just be intentional yeah don’t be lazy
be intentional well and i want to
encourage you because one of the things
that i love i know pastor bill does as
well is revival history yeah um and
don’t don’t tune out because i said the
word history it’s this is not some just
academic thing i think revival history
is really that living testimony that’s
right of what god has done
how would you say
all right i’m going to give you a
challenge and again in open heavens um
it’s a the book is very practical it’s
very relevant very now
um
you you did the book defining moments
which is more of a revival history book
how would you say to the everyday
believer why would it be important to
study
past moves of god or even people like
wigglesworth or john g like that god has
used in the past what does that do or
how is it relevant to us now
because as people we tend to want to
justify
where we’re at in life
and so what we do is
is
say the what i’m experiencing is the
normal christian life
and when you read history and you see
that even a hundred years ago 200 years
ago there were times where they had
greater measure presence of power of
kingdom being manifested in church life
than we do now 200 years later certainly
god intended us to go from glory to
glory yes so when you read that it it
exposes
the fact that if we get lazy
uh we sleep on the job
things decline but if we become provoked
as people of hunger people with
authority that move in to see something
happen
then it changes and so i i just love
reading you know john g lake and his
his uh exploits his what you know what
he accomplished just moves me
wiggles were all these guys you know
yeah amy simple mcpherson
um to read their
stories man it’s not it’s not boring
stories it’s stuff that provokes you to
to life to a life change
you say god if you did it for that
person you know respective persons yes
and you’re the same yesterday today
forever so that means what you did then
you want to do now so i want you to i
want to be involved you know i don’t
have to be the center of it but i want
to be in the room you know yeah and uh
so that’s that’s kind of how it works
for me is i i use it to provoke me yeah
and i love reading their stories because
i love to ask the question what did they
do i mean we’re obviously not working to
try to gain
favor from god but looking at their
lives okay god what did what did they do
one of the things that i learned from
you
and i love the language and hosting the
presence you talk about what does it
look like for the spirit of god to rest
on somebody
and what i love about those people i
mean
i’m sure as people are listening right
now they think when they hear john g
lake or wigglesworth or kathryn kuhlman
well those are spiritual kind of
superheroes right and what i like about
them and i’d love for you to comment i
remember one time the holy spirit said
you know larry
if you actually start looking into their
lives i mean god’s generals is a great
place that gives you some perspective
for sure they were not perfect people
um
but i feel like going back to that point
that you talk about the spirit resting
upon you i feel like they were people
who recognize holy spirit i know you
live inside of me because i’m born again
what would it look like though for you
to rest upon me and i feel like they
pushed to see what that could look like
and what what would you say to the i
mean how do we learn from people like
those i mean how are how are they
relevant to us
and not some unattainable benchmark
well i guess first of all just repent
from the idea of elevating them above
their
god-given place yeah they they aren’t
super humans they are people you know
the scripture talks about elijah a man
of like passion yes you know same as we
are but he said yes at the right places
to god come on he said yes he just
trusted god he put himself at risk
and all of these guys you know and gals
they
they just said yes to god they just they
refused to sit by and make excuses yeah
and they just said yes and they obeyed
him they went out and
bought the tent you know to have the
revival meeting and they they would do
something outside of
ease and convenience and and really put
themselves at risk and god honored what
they did because
you know as wimber would say risk
faith is spelled risk and yes and god
would honor their faith and great things
would happen yeah so it’s just it’s
simplistic we just repent for
you know is we tend to either put people
down yes or we elevate them beyond reach
so that way nobody has influence on us
yeah and we’ve gotta we’ve gotta repent
from that and realize that god gave them
as examples yeah
well and and the reason i was bringing
that up is in the filming and i believe
also in the book you talk about honor
you know some of the things that you
talk about when it comes to revival
i and others were like i would have
never put that in a context for revival
how honor
actually positions us to experience the
move of god i mean
and folks just to let you know
the different things that we’re talking
about these are just some of the things
either sprinkled in the book that you’ve
talked about in the curriculum just
things i believe that are worth
highlighting concerning how do we
position ourselves for revival and just
to recap i mean again we pray in a way
where we’re not reacting to the devil
we’re responding to the father we feed
on the record on the testimony of what
god has done and even talking about some
of the leaders we were just mentioning i
think there is a principle could you
share what does honor look like in
revival how does that position us to
experience the presence of god like with
jesus in his own hometown
yeah you know you have to value
you have to value who a person is
without stumbling over who they’re not
really what it comes down to is is i
have to recognize all right the holy
spirit has chosen this person and he’s
put great favor anointing on them
and if i don’t like the way he dresses
or i don’t like the way she talks or i
don’t like you know
there’s all kinds of stumbling blocks
and sometimes our greatest breakthrough
is on the other side of a stumbling
block yeah it’s like with the
syrophoenician woman you know jesus uh
she wanted her daughter to be healed and
he said i can’t give the children’s
bread to dogs so he puts this stumbling
block in front of her that she had to
overcome to come into the area of
breakthrough that she was hungry for
and
you know it may seem unfair but you know
you’re not god he in wisdom knows what
to do
and uh and he knows
he knows what it takes for us to enter
into breakthrough and sustain it once we
get it yeah and he and his mercy gave
her an obstacle and uh and she responded
well so we just have to we have to deal
with the opportunities in front of us
and make no excuses yeah no excuses yeah
yeah yeah well again we just have a
couple of minutes left but
the book open heavens it’s available
it’s going to be available september
18th we’re doing a two-day filming right
now with pastor bill so that’ll be a
bible study that we’re putting together
around the topic of open heavens a
curriculum that’ll be available dvd and
e-course all those good things um the
last thing i want to ask you about and
we might just pray for the people
and you’ve talked about this in hosting
the presence you talked about it during
this filming uh and i love the scripture
isaiah 64 1 rend the heavens and come
down tear open the heavens and come down
and
you do such a wonderful job putting it
in balance because
the bible tells us everything that’s
available in our account this is
language you use and i love it it’s
available on our account but there’s a
difference between something that’s in
my spiritual bank account and what i
hold in my hand
what’s how does prayer
factor into all of that
oh goodness prayer
you know prayer is the backbone of every
great move of god but prayer without
action
nothing happens
it’s like you know as uh i like to
illustrate the walls of jericho once
they marched around the city and the
walls of jericho fell they still had to
go in and defeat the enemy yes you know
the enemy wasn’t dead the obstacle to
the victory was removed wow that’s what
prayer does is it removes the obstacle
there still has to be
faith to take action to move in and so
prayer really sets the stage for the
victories that we hunger for the long
for but
as we pray we have to follow up
you know and take action and that uh
without the action this stuff doesn’t
doesn’t happen yeah you know it just
there just isn’t the sustained
breakthrough
because i think it’s a combination of
intercession and activism and when i say
activism it’s not necessarily political
act it’s just it’s do exactly taking
action
um because often when you pray god will
tell you something to do
and i’ve i’ll have to be honest i’ve
prayed sometimes and god will speak to
me
and i’ll keep praying instead of doing
what he told me because sometimes it’s
easier to pray
so i do want to encourage you all though
um and i’ll have pastor bill pray as
well is uh
i i love that though run the heavens and
come down because you talk about how
heavens opened over jesus
when he was baptized
and how i find myself praying is this
lord i recognize and open heaven’s been
made available theologically the lord i
want to see what it looks like for
heaven to be torn open
over a person or a city or a region
um every person who has the holy spirit
has an open heaven over them
but the problem is as i interpret what’s
happening in the nation or what’s
happening in my city or what’s going on
with my neighbor yeah and take it
personal
and
think that i live under close heavens i
don’t i live in the open heavens why
because the holy spirit is in fellowship
with the father and there’s no demonic
realm that can block that so i have to i
owe it to him to live conscious of that
open heaven and pray accordingly i have
absolute access to the heart of the
father yeah yeah it doesn’t take ten
hours of belly aching to get hurt he’s a
he’s a father who loves me yes and that
open heaven has to be taken advantage of
yes you know so it’s uh that rend the
heavens thing is huge you know jesus uh
the holy spirit came upon him in the
form of a dove through a torn open
heaven yeah and the whole point of that
part of the story
is that open heavens
happen
to release the holy spirit upon jesus
and now upon us yeah so open heaven
exists where the holy spirit exists
would you just pray briefly for the
folks who are watching because i believe
the lord wants to stir that for all of
us absolutely yeah father
we are hungry and i’m
we’re hungry for the more we’re hungry
for what we’ve read about in history
we’re hungry for
what we hear happening around the world
we’re just hungry
and we know the crises that our nations
face
it’s not stuff we can fix
it’s beyond human repair
but it’s not beyond your repairs it’s
not beyond your grace
it’s not beyond your plan
and so we looked you with absolute
confidence wonderful
wonderful father
pour out your spirit upon every single
person watching this every single person
in such a way that we become a catholic
change in the part of the world that
you’ve planted us in
lord i do pray for a mighty mighty
outpouring of the spirit
and that together we would see jesus
exalted yes because both purity and
power
are normal in the church again yeah let
it be
let it be amen amen amen thanks thanks
all for joining us
and again the uh the book is available
september 18th but you can pre-order it
amazon or through bethel and we’ll see
you soon thanks everyone bye
you