Does Bethel Church Operate in the Kundalini Spirit? Bill Johnson | Rediscover Bethel Series

Bethel Church in Redding, CA, is a congregation rooted in the love of God and dedicated to worldwide transformation through revival. It’s our goal for God’s love to be manifest in signs, wonders, and miracles. The atmosphere at Bethel is charged with faith and exuberant joy, which manifests in all we do. We believe we’re on the edge of the greatest revival of all time. It’s our vision to see history become His-story as the kingdom of this world becomes the kingdom of our God. We welcome you to join us in this adventure!

denominations tend to

want to clean up the record of the moves

of god that they’ve experienced the

shantung revival in china is a great

example

there is a book out on the shenandoah

bible that will bore you to tears

because it tells you about all the maybe

outcomes of this these this number this

church this missionary but not the

process and the process is where god

radically touched this family radically

touched this church this child

and and it brought about incredible

fruit for his name

[Music]

this idea how do you know it’s the holy

spirit versus another spirit a demonic

spirit some uh the internet again has

created uh something i’ve never heard of

the the or hadn’t really heard of the

kundalini spirit and somehow that that’s

in operation here

um

again i

i never heard of it until i was actually

i didn’t even so that’s another another

deal like that again you could the the

critic could say well you can’t just

because you’re ignorant doesn’t mean

it’s not true whatever else but the the

basic idea is a fallacy because it looks

like something else it is something else

and so again we’re talking about the

fruit of our life and then this idea

that we’re actually in relationship with

this divine being the with the lord i’m

talking about yahweh the covenant god of

the old testament we’re in relationship

with him so we are not afraid and we

know his voice my sheep know my voice so

yeah i i know like this is this spirit

of love and truth and integrity this

this being whom i’m experiencing his

presence at the moment this is holiness

this is perfect goodness there’s no

there’s no i don’t wonder allow like

might this be a demon

in those moments never uh it doesn’t

cross my mind because of the integrity

of the experience exactly that’s

happening so exactly

i think we’re supposed to learn to

recognize the presence of the holy

spirit just in our own personal life not

just in a ministry context but just in

life

because when i learn to recognize his

presence it’s much easier for me to

discern

the authenticity of maybe somebody’s

testimony yeah maybe

the decision they’re about to make

maybe the manifestation of them

physically

you can you start to recognize him when

he’s doing something and it’s a lot

easier i was in a situation way back at

the beginning where i was surrounded by

what appeared to be chaos just because

of the numbers of people

i closed my eyes so that i could cancel

out what i was seeing

and i and i became overwhelmingly

overwhelmingly aware

it’s the same presence of the holy

spirit that i experienced in my in my

worship time with the lord

and

as long as i

wasn’t offended in my mind

by what i didn’t understand

i was anchored if you will i was i was

anchored in recognizing

this is god

and then i was able to

to then begin to respond

more

positively appropriately towards what

was happening around me yeah and this is

just a portion of our walk with jesus

this isn’t in every meeting it’s not in

every devotional time it’s not in every

uh you know session of school by any

stretch of imagination we have folks who

have profound physical experiences and

then don’t for a long time um or

you talk about turning aside there are

times when i i won’t have any but i’ll

get into a prayer ministry time when

suddenly i can experience this presence

physically

and emotionally in like a deeper more

dear way than kind of in my own quiet

time you know alone

um

and then i think they’re part of how do

you know it’s not the enemy we do ask

that like when we’re pastoring

environments so you’ve got to know how

to pass through the environment but i’ll

see some manifestations where i’ve kind

of walked up to people introduced myself

told them my role so that i have

authority and you know they’re not and

i’m not we’re not afraid of wrecking

what god’s doing when the lord’s in it

you’re not going to wreck it because i’m

not coming as a mocker or you know to an

accuser i’d be like hi i’m dan one of

the pastors here this looks very intense

what you’re experiencing

is this the lord

you know and then they sometimes they

can they have told me they’ve just

nodded yes you know and um because they

can’t speak it’s so intense experience

like exactly and like so you’re

physically fine you’re not having a

stroke or anything and you know be like

yeah they’ll nod yes and i’m like okay

at other times i’ll talk with them and

say hey you know are you doing all right

are you scared and they’ll nod yes

you’re like do you feel is this the lord

or the demonic so we’re actually

pastoring in that moment that’s huge um

and again i don’t have to do it all the

time because all of our meetings are not

nearly anything like this but you do

have to have leadership in the

environment and some conversations

happen in the moment uh there and then

some happen afterwards like hey your

response to the lord’s presence is i

know it’s meaningful to you it’s

incredibly distracting to the rest of us

so we’re going to need you to

to to dial in to cooperate with the holy

spirit in a way that actually doesn’t

distract from the meeting

you know at this time or that isn’t

drawing so much attention even though

your heart might not be to draw

attention that is what’s happening so

exactly it’s um in our in our culture

we’re not afraid to confront those sorts

of things as we need to we’ll let them

go a little long like we’ll just let

them go a little longer i remember one

time we were in a um we’re in a uh a

joy-filled meeting and um a woman was on

her knees she came to the middle of the

altar sorry the middle of the aisle the

center altar and she is on her knees

crying out it’s the blood it’s the blood

it’s the blood and worship’s going it’s

loud there’s joyous praise everywhere

but i remember that moment thinking the

it wasn’t an act of praise that she was

involved in in that moment but i’m like

lord this could be you like she could be

the lone person we could all be in a

mode like it’s time to experience joy

let’s do our thing

and she could have been the lone person

actually like i’m this the lord’s i’m

interested in you prepondering my

sacrifice tonight i’m interested in you

pondering the sacredness of myself

giving love so i’m listening and trying

to like how do you do it i don’t know

how to describe what i’m doing am i

trying to do more than my mind and more

than my taste more than my preference

and more than my emotions excellent and

try to listen like lord is this you are

you on this young woman taking us in a

direction

so i just let her go on for a while now

other people were noticing but they saw

me like 10 feet behind her and they’re

like okay good leader a leader is paying

attention and um so then she i come up

and i say you know at the end my

discernment was like this isn’t what the

lord’s doing tonight and so i kind of

just sat down and introduced myself we

had a great conversation about what you

know what the lord was doing with her

and i kind of gently said it i love what

the lord’s doing um it it doesn’t seem

to be quite what’s corporately happening

so you know if you’d like to kind of

continue in this maybe uh just in a less

obvious place or less

quiet in a more quiet way yeah i’d love

to facilitate that or or it might be

that your assignment’s been done and and

it’s time to join the lord and praising

for his glorious sacrifice you know so

just like letting her process that’s

beautiful what she was up to in that

moment that’s beautiful and um and and

not getting uh not getting

kind of locked up and what are people

going to think and yeah and this is

exactly what the group’s doing and i i

just recommend that sort of benny has a

fun story i don’t know if you remember

where there was a

i’m going to take the time to tell the

story so as a young woman dancing in the

front in a somewhat provocative fashion

close to you during worship

yeah that was actually that was actually

my story oh yeah she was dancing in

front of me in a very strange way yeah

and i it got cold around me physically

cold and i

so i walked about 10 feet away

to see uh if the if the room was just

cold i got about 10 feet away and it was

normal

i got back close to her i remembered an

experience that my brother had in a

horrible spiritual time with his

ministry in san francisco and stuff

and it reminded me of his description of

that encounter yeah and so i went over

to summer who is our dancer

and i said summer i need you to dance

before the lord we need to break

something and then i turned to my wife

and i said honey i

i need you to pray for her and uh and

literally the moment summer began to

dance before the lord this gal collapsed

right in front of me and it was it was a

horrible demonic thing

very s subtle but horrible she collapsed

in front of me

benny my wife leaned forward and began

to pray for her just brought her through

great deliverance into salvation and it

ended up being a very amazing thing but

it started by

not just visually uh what she was doing

it started because of a temperature

change interesting and then it reminds

me of hebrews 5 have your senses trained

to discern good and evil that there was

actually something triggered

that seemed to be more biblical than my

experience was

historically yeah that that had never

happened before well and then the folks

who were that were part of that story

from the outside they were just offended

at what she was doing and that she was

so you know

sure so so much in your environment and

doing that so there’s a moment where we

didn’t act in utter response to that

offense but act actually acted in hey

let’s let’s uh move with spiritual

authority yeah in this area and with

kindness in this order yeah there’s a

redemptive solution

yeah no that’s that’s that’s the truth

absolutely

so to be clear not everybody has to

manifest and not every denomination not

every church has to have these

manifestations going on that’s not what

we’re saying to be truly spiritual or

truly connected to god or truly

represent you’ve got to do it like us

that’s

no no it’s just hunger for god let him

do what he does you know so we would say

everybody should be hungry i hope so

absolutely yeah absolutely

yeah you can’t have god offer something

that extreme that extravagant that

extraordinary and sit and do nothing you

know he welcomes us to come and to seek

him

he’s already here yes but to seek him

more diligently to set our face towards

him and to seek him more diligently it’s

a great privilege of life yeah so

cultivating the hunger and then

responding to his presence in the way

that he comes just with as much

authenticity as you can bring to that

yeah so the great revivals of the church

oftentimes had these manifestations of

various kinds and we don’t we don’t

quite talk about them a lot we talk

about their fervent prayer but you can

go back into the record if it hasn’t

been sanitized or you know they haven’t

kind of changed the stories a little bit

and the old revivals

full of unusual

signs and wonders manifestations of the

lord’s presence on the meeting on the

movement you’re good yeah

the

denominations tend to

want to clean up the record of the moves

of god that they’ve experienced the

shantung revival in china is a great

example

there is a book out on the chanting

revival that will bore you to tears

because it tells you about all the

maybe outcomes of this these this number

this church this missionary but not the

process and the process is where god

radically touched this family radically

touched this church this child

and and it brought about incredible

fruit for his name

and uh and so there are two versions of

that book randy clark our dear friend uh

republished the book uh in the original

content so you could see what actually

happened and this is it’s dialogue

between missionaries of what’s happening

in their part of the world and uh it’s

extraordinary to see the the the mighty

outpouring wow the holy spirit the cain

ridge revival went on for many many

years and it was very unusual

but uh but it was it was so powerful so

legitimate and oftentimes what happens

is these great moves of god

they have a a an offensive element to it

that’s that always seems to be the case

the lord does not mind offending his

spirit no he doesn’t

uh

one one of our

friends from years ago said uh he will

offend your mind to reveal your heart

and that happens so much but these these

great moves of god they will actually

so position society and culture to

advance in the years following the

revival that really really is quite

extraordinary

real transformation takes place so

it’s a glorious thing but uh

but it doesn’t do any of us favors to

whitewash history to to

until it looks like what we want it to

look yes it’s just not honest no

beautify

that’s been part of the journey i

mentioned like discovering that

spiritual discernment wasn’t just

my taste or past experience

those really feel very similar inside

what i my taste what i prefer and my

past experience does like it’s i discern

brother that’s the devil so i have to be

really cautious

well

and it’s an arrogant position it’s like

well ouch build it yeah

where you look at something and you go

well that can’t be god and basically the

judge is he didn’t do it to me first so

why would he do it to you yeah yeah

absolutely it’s just a poor standard of

judging things yeah so look look back in

past revivals find the find the first

sources if you can and not the later

ones where each other they they were

sanitized and by sometimes we we took

out the spooky stuff the unusual

stuff that isn’t quite in the scripture

but not forbidden from scripture you

know and but unusual experiences

and almost always in every greek

movement of god there have been these

experiences which is true so what about

if you come from a church though that

doesn’t like you know there’s lots of

traditions i i was it came from a

non-charismatic church and

and um so i you know always wanted the

lord to do whatever he wanted but you

know i was just taught that this is what

church is like and this is what’s normal

and yet you know we were hungry for the

lord and we would have said we were

hungry for the lord some of us more

hungry than others you know at some

point sure but do you have a sense of

like why some churches move uh have

experiences of these manifestations and

other places don’t

i don’t know i think the risk element is

a part of it so if you don’t like risk

you probably won’t

yeah

usually i mean the lord can cross the

line and

and touch you anywhere you want

something it’s all through scripture you

know

um but typically typically our hunger

precedes a great outpouring not always

not always but typically hunger or

hunger for more just that realization

there’s so much more to walking with

jesus than what i know yeah and i’m just

hungry and there are

a whole school that would throw up

alarms at that point and say you have to

be careful for deception but jesus made

that pretty clear he said you know

he’s not going to give you a stone

instead of bread he’s not going to give

you a scorpion instead of a fish he’s

not going to

you’re not going to pursue him and then

have him trick you and allow you to get

into a a deceptive thing unless you’ve

got personal issues that you’re

unwilling to repent of then of course

there are other factors completely

outside community and can’t have can’t

have any interaction exactly you know

with them sometimes that’ll happen so

yeah the other um you know maybe why

doesn’t happen is sometimes we you know

you kind of get what you teach like we

we don’t we used to have more public um

uh public prophecy accompanied with

tongues because we would teach on it yes

we were smaller we had a microphone

up at the front forward right and people

would take the risk and they’d they’d

speak to us i feel like the lord’s

saying this and then they would jump up

but we don’t know now we have church

full of visitors we can’t quite take the

risk in our main meetings it doesn’t

make sense to we don’t know everybody

that’s in the room

um so we and we don’t teach into that so

when you don’t teach something you kind

of don’t get it yeah at some point so

that’d be part i would say part of what

happens

and my own experience too is i i as

being a you know kind of a not very

charismatic leader in a charismatic

church in the early 90s here i

i just found that my comfortable like

first of all i didn’t know what the

anointing was like the idea of the

anointing like

really didn’t have a grid for it it

wasn’t something we talked about

um we if we did it was purely emotional

like that you just that’s a code word

for your your an emotionless you know

your emotions

um but i remember like i was

uncomfortable leading my people in

anything i couldn’t sustain

so like if i get super hungry

i might not be super hungry in three

weeks

so like i’m not i don’t want to take you

to the edge and go i actually can’t

follow through with that so i i stuck

with my skills

with my gifts what i knew that i could

do for the lord’s glory like why venture

into some place that i’m not comfortable

yeah i i’m totally depend on the lord to

show up you know i can actually prepare

a pretty decent sermon even if he

doesn’t show up i’m not being critical

but i mean like you know it’s from the

bible it’s accurate everybody can go

amen but i i remember some of the the

signs and wonders and the manifestations

they were uncomfortable to me as a

leader again i’m not throwing a rock at

any leader i’m telling you my own story

is like i was like i don’t i can’t

sustain this

so i don’t know

i’m afraid to move into it and uh

aggressively so that might be something

that some of our our leaders are like i

don’t i’ve never been trained in this

and i’ll tell you going through bible

school and stuff i wasn’t trained in

this how to lead a meeting in faith

how to experience holy spirit and power

you know um you know how to prophesy

these were not these were not seminary

classes on how to prophesy

but you know when i first came i must

say see peter wagner i took a couple

classes from him and it’s fuller and i

you know i did yeah i did get some some

insight into that when i first came you

remember

certain things began to happen yeah

within a short period of time yeah i

know

and uh and alan ray one of our key guys

on staff came to me privately said you

know he said we want to help you pastor

this

but we’re learning at the same pace as

the people yeah

can we meet privately yeah and i thought

brilliant idea so i brought a team down

from weberville and hayfork and

and met in uh yeah in a home yeah and

then our teams just prayed for and all

all that happened was the presence of

god showed up the power of god showed up

in a very

wonderful way yeah

and it just put our lead or our staff

yeah you know two weeks ahead of

everyone else yeah and that’s all we

need yeah that’s what we do

it’s just that i was maybe like two days

after those meetings but yeah

but

that’s the point is it it gave us a

point of reference together where

literally we’re learning together you

have to you have to become a novice to

grow

uh you know jesus

he said i’m so glad you didn’t reveal

these things to the educator to the wise

the lord that you reveal it to babes and

sometimes you have to become childlike

to really get what god is saying what

he’s doing and that’s what happened to

all of us

as we were reduced

positively to being childlike