Dr. Tony Evans and his family share their thoughts about the sudden passing of their close family member, Wynter Pitts. In this candid conversation, they address questions we have about God, especially during very difficult moments when things don’t make sense. Please join us in keeping the Pitts and Evans families in our prayers.
good evening everybody how are you
tonight good to see you guys so glad
that you were here it’s a it’s a
interesting night for our family and for
so many members of our church and wanted
to just have a great conversation
tonight with you with our with our
extended family and and let our dad and
Pastor sort of speak into this issue
that has hit us personally but we
thought would be a great opportunity to
talk with our church about when we face
unexpected loss tragedy difficulty in
our lives what that looks like and how
we reconcile that with the goodness of
God the kindness of God so some of you
may or may not be aware at this point
that last night very suddenly very
tragically we lost well one of me and
Crystal’s best friends and our cousin my
father’s niece her name is winter Pitts
member of this church for a very long
time in fact was on staff here as well I
think they have a photograph of her that
they’re gonna put up and that’s winter
and her husband and her four girls very
young family and so anyway she stopped
breathing last night we were all at the
hospital till the wee hours of the
morning just consoling each other we’ve
been doing that all day today so excuse
our flip-flops and you know our gym
clothes but it is what it is how about
that we wanted to come to church tonight
though because what a great opportunity
to talk about our night last night in
terms of my father and how he sort of
has to take off pastor hat and put on
dad
uncle hurting hat and what that looks
like when you’re him but also then hear
his perspective that will be again
helpful for all of us when you are in a
place of unexpected tragedy and loss and
difficulty so we hope that this
conversation will be a blessing to you
dad we did want to start by just talking
to you about last night maybe giving
everyone a little bit of frame of
reference on how the evening unfolded
and what it felt like for you because
normally when you’re at the hospital to
console someone it is
someone that is a part of your church
but not necessarily your family your
people so talk to us about last night
well it was about 7:30 then I got a call
from Priscilla and she asked me had
anyone called me and I said about what
and she said winter has stopped
breathing and she was being rushed to
the hospital and so I was kind of
startled hearing that we had just been
with her and her husband Jonathan Pitts
and before girls and so to hear that was
a shocker and so I found out what
hospital and I said okay I’ll be right
there
then I picked up the phone and I called
Jonathan Pitts not knowing whether he
would answer or not he did answer and it
was hard to understand his all of his
words because of the tears and I do
remember his phrase it doesn’t look good
because she was not breathing and so so
I rushed out sevens came later but I
rushed out and went to the hospital and
I walked into the room and when I walked
into the room I knew it was over from
the medical standpoint because Jonathan
was hovered over his wife and saying
she’s gone she’s gone she’s gone
and feeling that sadness shock mixture
of both heartache seeing a young man
weep over his young wife and then the
worst part of it for me was him going to
tell his girls who were at the hospital
to and to hear the wailing that came
from four girls that this was just so
unbelievable at the very same time
something very encouraging in the midst
of the heartache tears and pain
Jonathan immediately went into where
their mother was that she was with the
Lord and she was with her Savior and as
everybody was crying and some of the
girls saying no this can’t be this can’t
be he began singing a hymn he began
singing a praise song and so we joined
him with him as he saying to his girls
and then it just unfolded from there
more family came more people came the
representative Darryl dumbest of the
church King as we talked about the
reality of the night that we couldn’t
believe so for me there was a
ministerial and a personal that they
collided I wanted to encourage Jonathan
wanted to carriage the girls wanted to
encourage myself but there was confusion
with me how could this happen to her
what appear to be a healthy 38 year old
mother especially in light of new plans
that they had new destinations that they
were going new vision that they were
sharing how could this happen and so it
raised this kind of the question that
you raised a good god and at the same
time the tragedies of life so that was
kind
the moments and before we dive into sort
of that theological conversation I know
a lot of members of our congregation you
know we kind of see you on the platform
and you’re preaching and you’re teaching
to us and you have to always be well you
are in a very strong fatherly position
in obviously our family but – you know
you’re shepherding us and people see you
that way all the time and I know a lot
of people really want to know how are
you because excuse me I’m sorry
how are you given the fact that a lot of
people you know here at church realize
that you know you lost your brother our
uncle six months ago and now you’ve lost
your other brother’s daughter so your
church would like to know how are you
I guess I struggle between I wanna I
insist as honestly as I can
I struggle between wanting to minister
to everybody and when a crisis hits and
probably letting that overshadow my
feeling about the crisis because though
obviously there’s some people hurt more
than me
a husband and four girls but I do hurt I
hurt her when people come into my office
and I want to quit or throw up but I
know they come in for you know give up
but I know they’re coming because they
want some hope they want some hope and
so I hurt with them but I also got to be
strong enough to try to give them hope
so I guess my answer to that is I don’t
know how I am fully because I have to at
least I think I have to try to find a
way to give hope in a hurting situation
and that kind of gets in the way I
probably would have to back away from it
a little bit to find out where I am
which happened with my brother when my
brother died six months ago
there were times when I broke down but
at the same time I had I’m the oldest
son I gotta make sure my father’s okay
my sister’s okay so it’s that I do allow
that to overshadow that most of the time
you know I’m curious about it cuz I mean
she said the church are not there but
the kids wonder how you feel cuz you
just keep going
somehow you’re able to just keep going
I guess because I do believe what I
preach
[Applause]
[Music]
I do believe she’s in a better place I
do believe in the sovereignty of God I
do believe in the goodness of God I do
believe and because I believe you know I
do I do keep going maybe some of its
personality or some of its drive but at
the same time there is a belief that’s
intact that I’m wrapped around because I
don’t know where I would be with all the
situations in life if I didn’t have an
anchor well I’m gonna let you know John
John asked you these you know and
crystal and Anthony myself asked you
some of the questions that’ll be a
little broader in terms of the
theological implications of this and how
we have that hope but you know before
the night is over it I want us to pray
for you because we you know we we worry
about you dad as your kids and your
church just because you are carrying a
whole lot you’re carrying your own stuff
but you’re carrying all our stuff too
and we want you to know we’re grateful
and we want you to know that the hope
that you have and the reason why you
keep going that anchor that last night
as we last night as we were around
winter’s body singing victory in Jesus
and your grandkids were around singing
that I thought what a great legacy that
because you have had that anchor that
now you have grandchildren and
great-grandchildren that in the face of
sudden tragedy are able to say how great
is our God and we’re grateful for that
because you have a church of people that
have faced tragedies of their own and
they too have an anchor because you have
had such a solid anchor example for us
riveted
[Music]
[Applause]
so before the night is over going to
pray for you but we do want to ask some
questions that will help us wrap our
minds around your thoughts on the
goodness of God on evil on tragedy on
why things like this are allowed that
don’t make sense and those sorts of
things John John I guess I want to know
I mean cuz we it’s not just about us
many of you have experienced the same
thing and you know with winter
specifically in our situation you know
leaving behind you know Jonathan Pitts
and four little girls how do they how to
do then we continued a message of God is
good because all they see is tragedy and
what God has taken it’s viewed as
selfish you know all of those different
things so and a lot of people either
walk away from the faith or remain
atheists because of the idea of us
preaching a good God all the time and
you know how do you say that to the kid
in Africa who would you know an American
experience is different but you know we
stand up here and we preach all things
work together for good for those who
love God in a call to this person
purposes but you got these kids over in
different countries who were born with
AIDS from the day they were born and
they died that way and we over here Tom
how good god is so explain the goodness
of God as it relates to people’s real
experiences
first of all if you get rid of God you
still got your problem so getting rid of
God hadn’t changed your scenario there’s
still sickness and evil okay I think
about Jesus’s question the Peter he said
when they had questions will you leave
me compete his answer was well where we
gonna go you have the words of eternal
life so the first thing is that you
haven’t solved your problem by running
from God the second thing is when you
look you know there’s a song that people
with saying you know when I compare my
good days with my bad days you know the
goodness of God is all around us it only
comes into question when bad things
happen you take away the bad things we
were celebrating with Jonathan Pitts in
his family the goodness of God as a
family we were celebrating that and then
this happens so now the questions come
but what about all those other days when
there were no questions when we were
laughing and celebrating so you have to
put the the badness of a situation
against the history of God’s goodness so
that’s the second thing a third thing is
what you kind of got into is you know
why do we have this why do we have all
of this pain and how can a good God
allow evil that’s the question of what
we call in theology theodicy the the
goodness of God and the reality
well God has given men chase and with
choice but the potential for evil exists
because you can choose the gangs good
and if you choose the gangs good then
the only up the opposite of that would
be non good or evil so freedom allows
evil to exist but men make evil happen
freedom allows for it because now you
have a choice
but men actualize it and when we
actualize our evil it affects other
people when a murderer actualize this is
evil somebody else dies but to me that’s
why I need a sovereign God who can at
least choose to intervene in the reality
of evil in the world that I live in and
we live in if I’m just left to man then
I’m subject to anything anybody wants to
do anytime they want to do it but if I
at least have a sovereign God and that
evil has to flow through his fingers
before it gets to me then I have the
hope that God is in control even when
things are not out of control but my
biggest comfort is where else am I
supposed to go cuz if you if you take me
away from that I have no hope I am I’m
I’m at the whim of everything else that
has as I have absolutely nothing no
control over so I’d rather cast my lot
with a God that I don’t understand
then with men
[Applause]
um I think this touches on a question
that’s a little further down on that
sheet but how can I then have boldness
in my faith
if history circumstances the evil that’s
in the world the evil that comes through
God’s finger if circumstances have been
hard how can I then have old faith
particularly when you’ve prayed for God
to help and he doesn’t because you can
know that to be true
and you can even rehearse that but but
how do you then walk with boldness if I
if I have one of my kids come and I tell
them to sit in a chair and if when they
go to sit I pull the chair out from
under them the next time I tell them to
sit in the chair they’re going to
hesitate so I know God is not pulling
out the chair but the experience is a
teacher too so how can I approach my
faith with boldness when experience says
well the last time I hoped God would
help and he didn’t or the last time I
prayed for God to help and he didn’t how
do you then conjure up a bold confident
faith even in your head if you got it
how do you walk that out when
experienced it says oh well because I
know I hear it all the time people will
say well I just don’t think he hears me
he doesn’t listen he doesn’t answer my
requests how would you answer that a
couple of weeks ago a friend of mine
died he was on the table he was
pronounced dead
as the family was sorrowing he twitched
and they make a long story short he’s
now walking around after having been
pronounced dead so you can imagine the
celebration because that was like a
Lazarus moment when I walked in winters
from last night and Jonathan had gone I
sat down in the chair and I said do it
again Lord do it again the reason he
didn’t but the reason I could ask him
that is because of what happened here so
having a history with God doing things
in your yesterday when you face your
today or tomorrow whether or not he does
it or not at least gives you confident
that the possibility exists and if the
possibility exists then I have to trust
in the fact but whether he does it or
not that he knows what he’s doing cuz I
know what he can do I know what he has
done so I know he might do it here he
might not I gotta leave that in his
sovereign hand so what we’ve got to
remind ourselves of all the times when
he has come through so that we can walk
in faith when he does not come through
because we know he can we know he’s good
we know he loves us but we also know
he’s sovereign and you got to put all
those together at the same time and I
will agree the Bible is full of why
questions you know the whole book of Job
is why do the righteous suffer you know
how do I make sense of this
so here’s the statement I would give to
the girls when I sit down and talk with
them and to Jonathan I can’t answer many
people don’t know why why why why I
can’t answer all that because God leaves
Deuteronomy 29:29 says he has secret
things that he does not answer why –
okay that’s his prerogative but I will
tell them this your mother loved the
Lord the Lord loved your mother so in
some unknown way he determined it was
her time I don’t like it you don’t like
it let this cup pass from me but you
have to believe that God knows what he’s
doing when he’s not doing what we want
him to do or when we wanted me to do it
that’s all I can do but I’ve got enough
history to know what he can do and
because I have history of knowing what
he can do I know what he might do
whether or not he does it I think that’s
the frustrating thing for me is that he
won’t let me into that space you know he
when it comes to death and timing and
all of those things he owns it
and he won’t let me into that space so
as it relates to what we’re experiencing
I am NOT going to be allowed to wrap my
mind about around it I just have to be
stuck like this
and of course Pitts and the daughters
and all that kind of stuff and so like
you said I mean I’m encouraged but you
saying that because you’re you’re
counseling me that you just have to be
okay with trusting and believing in
faith because some things God owns and
he’s not letting you is you just can’t
come in there
and that’s what’s frustrating about
death is that we’re not allowed and we
don’t get to see you know all the whys
it’s just pure trust in faith which
leads strong people to stay and some
people who you know either are on the
fringe or don’t believe to leave because
of that question of the why and him just
owning stuff and you just have to just
be there just sit there I tell my kids
that sometimes yeah so I kind of
understand it you know need to know just
sit there well one thing that gives me
hope is the fact that you know I’m a
Christian I know winter saved I know she
loved the Lord so I know where she is
Jonathan Pitts came out talk to his
daughters and said you know she’s with
Jesus now Jesus is got her that’s better
than anything that we can ask for
so before we just move on to the next
thing I would just wondering if you you
you answered the question but could you
just speak to particularly mothers who
might be in the room who either through
abortion or miscarriage or you know a
very young just child death very young
you know and that thing can torture you
you know as a woman could you just speak
to women who may be here and and that is
their main concern and issue maybe get
some freedom from that tonight well we
know that abortion is a big big issue
today the Bible is clear that there is
life in the womb so to attack the life
that’s in the womb is to attack what the
Bible calls the image of God as a whole
song one Psalm 139 it talks about the
life that was in the womb and how God
was stitching the life the person
talks about John the Baptist mother
Elizabeth when she ran into Mary who was
pregnant with Jesus and how the baby
leaped in the mother’s womb the baby
leaped not an it the baby leaped in the
mother’s womb being in close contact
with Jesus so the Bible is clear that
there’s life so when you abort you’re
taking a life because when you
miscarriage that’s not taking it but a
licensed life is lost since it is life
then that that child immediately goes
into eternity because it is life even
though you don’t know the child yet if
you ever bought it well that’s a sin
you’ve taken a life but it’s not an
unpardonable sin
and you go to God Jesus even says you
know if you wish somebody was dead you
accused of murder so so you can you can
kill in a lot of different ways it was
wrong it was sinful and what I told a
couple not too long ago came to me after
years still grieving over this abortion
that they agreed to have that he paid
for we dealt with it spiritually
repented of the sin and I said here’s
what I want you to do I want you to go
in the sanctuary I want you to sit down
and I want you to give your baby a name
I said you don’t know whether it’s male
or female so give it a name that could
be male or female it could go either way
give your baby a name thank the Lord for
receiving your child into his hands and
forgiving you for 410 for forgiving you
and now move forward and he told the
woman and go and sin no more so you
don’t have to be in bondage to that sin
once you have to address that sin and
once you move forward now in
[Music]
this just goes back to the beginning a
little bit because I I didn’t
necessarily know the way my dad grieves
his grief process is just to keep
working I didn’t realize that mine is
not that I didn’t get that part of my
siblings my dad nothing I am if I was
not in this family I would have been
gone a long time ago because this kind
of stuff throws me way off so when
you’re a person built like me where you
lose your cousin you go hold her
daughter’s and you’re full of rage
because you cannot believe that this is
what is happening and it wasn’t people
like you were explaining evil earlier I
nothing evil happened to her like her
heart stopped like I feel like God
allowed that to happen when you’re
somebody who processes like me it
doesn’t go to hope real quick
you’re mad how do you navigate that when
you’re not I don’t go don’t go too quick
I’m just mad and and you know what I
just wonder because Anthony’s willing to
be honest like that I just wonder how
many people are in the room and you’re
in a posture of anger right now about
something that’s been allowed in your
life to happen dad look at all the hands
that are there going up so how do we
wrestle with that two times already
today I’ve had somebody in my office
saying it’s not fair
and one said and I’m angry I’m angry
because it’s not fair
first of all God allows anger
God allows anger you can feel guilty
because you’re angry at God okay but God
allows anger he allows frustration the
three chapters of the book of Abeka is a
frustrated angry man how could you allow
this guy so first of all be angry
respectfully but it’s okay to feel the
pain of God disappointing you okay cuz
he did I mean you disappoint it with God
and God already knows how you feel so
hiding it doesn’t make it disappear so
the first thing I would say is the first
thing you do with that anger is you take
it to him and you say I don’t understand
what you did I don’t understand why you
did it it’s not fair I am hurting
she loved you good look at these four
girls I don’t get it
that’s one secondly you’ve got to have
the right theology of death because if
you don’t death is only a negative when
in God’s economy it’s not only a
negative in God’s economy he makes an
astounding statement he says blessed is
the Lord with the death of his Saints
that is he is excited to have winter
with him now we’re not because of what
is lost but he’s excited to have winter
with him what if you don’t see that then
all you see is the bad part of death and
it is bad for us okay the other thing is
that combined with that it’s not all
what he did Paul says in Philippians
1:23 to be absent from the body is to be
present with the Lord immediately she
goes there so the body is writing but
the soul is very much alive so you do
have to have an eternal perspective
because
if all you see is time so here’s the
lesson for us you know we working on the
funeral and Ecclesiastes 7 says it is
better to go to a funeral than a party
because only at a funeral do you take
life seriously
says that a party with all the good
times you don’t think about all this at
a funeral you have to think about it we
have to think about it we have to talk
about it because it’s in front of us and
he says it’s better to do that then go
to a party why because then you put life
in its proper perspective 70 years Psalm
90 says you you know by reason of
strength you may make it to 80 years
then it’s over so what does he say teach
us to number our days make every day
counts because this is short this is
sure I’ll be 69 in a couple of months
down on the way all the time with this
is so short so don’t look at this is
like this this is this is an
introduction to life this is not life ok
you get some good times in the
introduction you get some bad times in
the introduction but it’s only an
introduction and if we keep that in mind
while expressing our honesty to God we
keep the right perspective in our pain
and in our tears
you know don’t ya I think I may be
sometimes watching you it’s kind of like
I don’t have enough faith because it’s
basically your view your theology your
belief your understanding your knowledge
and your wisdom just knowing that and
then you’re able to continue to function
at a high level should people who maybe
have different personalities see it not
that I don’t have faith I just have a
different personality well I think that
I think it’s it may be a combination of
the two people with just like people
have different emotions they react
differently people different
personalities so they’re gonna respond
at different levels to different things
at what Anthony was saying how he
doesn’t do it like me because he’s
different he’s more sensitive I’m more
driven so he’s gonna do it differently
so that that’s one but remember what
faith is because a lot of times we’re
defining faith as a feeling okay but
that’s not that’s a feeling and you can
have the you can have faith without the
accompanying feeling your faith is
demonstrated in your movement so guess
what what Jonathan Pitts was crying
while he was praising so he had a faith
of praise even though a disappointment
of circumstances so most people have
more faith than they think they have but
the emotions cloud whether it’s faith or
not so don’t mix the two because
sometimes the two are together and
sometimes they’re not because sometimes
you have to trust God in the dark it’s
pitched back and you have to do like
Paul and Silas and you got to praise Him
in midnight when you in Chains you know
so one way to exercise faith is to
praise in the
WP I’m glad you’re my dad
[Applause]
[Music]
[Applause]
you’re pretty good dad
so dad there is a question on here and
then what time are we supposed to be
done dad this is the last question and
then we’re gonna pray for a few things
tonight but just really quickly crystal
kind of touched on it a little bit but
it’s on the page so I want to get to it
just talk about why the Word of Faith
Movement is a little bit dangerous just
because again trying to reconcile and
balance believing God for the miraculous
but also trusting his sovereignty so
just how do we balance that how would
you encourage those who you’re
shepherding to balance a radical
outrageous faith in God to do big things
but also you know mellowing that out
with the reality of God’s sovereignty
well unfortunately many not all but many
of the Word of Faith Movement use the
concept of faith to manipulate God okay
God cannot be manipulated he does call
us to believe he told us to grow in our
faith so we ought to exercise faith and
I’ll put it this way in a sovereign God
so you’re not exercising faith in a God
you control your exercise in a faith in
a God who makes the final decision but
in exercising faith by our action what
we do is we invite God to do what he has
willed to do because everything God
wills to do he doesn’t automatically do
he doesn’t when he sees our faith so in
God’s sovereignty something he does
because he decides I’m just gonna do it
other things he does when we trust him
to do it you say but I don’t know which
is which which is why you express faith
in prayer in everything
so you don’t miss out on the ones he
plans to do
[Applause]
well I hope you all been encouraged by
our personal counseling session we’re
gonna pray for dad like I said a moment
ago but we’re gonna pray for you if
there’s anybody in the room we’re gonna
pray for you first if you’re in the
midst of a personal tragedy of your own
whether it’s death loss or it’s just a
tragic accident or something that’s
really taking your faith for a ride and
honestly you just see the stability you
need the Lord to offer you an extra
measure of comfort during this time and
and just need covering in your life
right now because of something like this
would you just stand if that’s you just
gonna ask dad to pray over you tonight
just build up your faith and encourage
you and him give you a peace that passes
understanding we want you to know we
stand with you as a church stand up if
that’s you okay and dad’s gonna pray for
you and then after that we’re gonna all
stand up if that’s okay and surround dad
in prayer dear Lord for those who are
standing because they’re hurting because
they’re disappointed because they’re
angry because they’re afraid be the
lifter of their head you said a bruised
Reed you would not break they already
bruised that’s why they’re standing they
don’t want to break throughout the Bible
you say that you do things suddenly you
come out of nowhere you just demonstrate
your greater glory we have chosen to
trust you even though to a large degree
we do not understand you we come on
behalf of our brothers and sisters in
the name of the risen Lord Jesus Christ
and we ask that you will intervene in
every situation as though it was the
only situation that you will treat them
special individually in whatever the
category of need is and may you
demonstrate your greater glory in their
lives and give them a fresh reason to
praise you in Jesus name
and then y’all we’re just gonna let dad
just stand here we’re gonna pray for you
dad if anybody wants to come forward or
just be near don’t pray for our pastor
tonight our Father all of our father
tonight we’re gonna pray for him mom’s
coming up give her a second
god we are grateful for your presence
we are grateful for you we are grateful
for your faithfulness in our lives
and now we come to you asking that you
would pour out your spirit on our dad
and our mom continue to strengthen them
as they carry in some cases weights that
we don’t understand and we never will I
pray God that you would give them a
supernatural peace right now I know that
a loss is a loss no matter how you how
you deal with it or how it shows it’s a
loss and God I pray that you will allow
my father and my mother the opportunity
to UM to grieve in an appropriate way so
they’re not holding things inside as
they continue to work hard I pray God
that you would allow this to clear out
of them loss that we’ve experienced as a
family and as a church and I pray God
that the years that we will that we have
coming will be great and beyond what we
could ever imagine I pray God that you
would put in them again a focus of what
exactly you would want them to be doing
right now so there’s not extra energy
going in a bunch of different directions
we are grateful God I pray though that
as a church that we would understand the
role that they have been entrusted with
and that we will be grateful that we get
to sit under this kind of teaching in
this support every week of our lives
twice a week I pray God that we will
never take that for granted I pray God
that you will reward them in their
personal relationship with each other
that these years will be amazing years
of connection with them we again are
grateful for you and we know that you
are a God you are faithful God
who has intention even when our hearts
are broken and please show us that
intention and again be a pour out a
blessing on our bond my my mom and dad’s
laughs on our mom and dad’s lives and
our pastor in our past and our pastor’s
wife we are grateful for you tonight and
what you are going to do purify all of
our hearts in this room and take us out
of here with a peace and peace in our
hearts with all these different
situations that are represented here we
again are grateful for you God and your
name we pray amen
thank you everybody thank you thank you
[Applause]
you