The media is full of controversy over the actions of Planned Parenthood. Christians around the world are taking a stand on abortion – but we aren’t all taking the same stand, are we? What does scripture say about abortion, and how should we as believers, respond as the government makes decisions about its morality? In Part 2, Tracy Johnson will join us to share from the other side of abortion – someone who has made the decision to abort children in the past. Hear about the effects these decisions had on Tracy’s life, how God has redeemed those choices and how she is helping others who have also made the choice to abort a child.
well hello there and welcome my name is
Priscilla and I just want to invite you
to pull up a chair get relaxed and
comfortable grab a cup of your favorite
you know whatever you like to have latte
coffee and just kind of snuggle up with
us for a conversation now this is gonna
be an important one today you know we
try to bring you interviews with people
who have interesting stories to tell
things that will educate you inspire you
inform you I think this one will be very
challenging to you and informative as
well about a topic that really is at the
top of everybody’s minds is at the
forefront of our minds culturally and
for many of us personally as well in our
families certainly politically it is the
issue of abortion we’re gonna tackle it
from a different perspective though here
for part one of the program we’re gonna
be talking to a woman who really should
not be sitting on the couch with me
today in this interview because she was
a baby whose mother tried to abort her
but didn’t quite turn out the way mom
planned and so she’s here to talk with
us today you’re gonna want to stay tuned
because you’re not gonna want to miss
this
hey there welcome to the chat with
Priscilla I’m Priscilla and I’m so glad
that you’re here and that you’re joining
me this is part 2 okay of a conversation
we’ve already been having you have got
to see part 1 because we’ve been talking
with a young woman who has a very unique
story actually she survived an abortion
and so she’s told us all about her story
and how the Lord has woven a tapestry of
events that have just been nothing short
of miraculous we’re gonna talk more to
her but we’re also gonna talk to a woman
today who’s gonna just kind of invite us
into her experience which is the flip
side of the coin she is a woman who has
seen the grace and forgiveness and mercy
of God as she’s traveled to the
experience of having abortions and I’m
just going to talk to us a little bit of
what that is like for a woman like her
and and how there’s even redemption in
those stories we’re going to talk to her
about her life as well so I’m so glad
that you’re here would you please help
me to welcome Tracy Johnson to her show
today
hi Gracie come on in I’m so glad that
you’re here glad that you’re here have a
seat relax we are so glad that you’re
joining us and glad that you’re adding
to the story because melissa has already
been telling us from her vantage point
and now we’ve got you here to sort of
fill us in on your story and tell us the
events that took place and what brought
you here well I can go way back it’s
still way back we got time it started as
a 18 year old just out of high school
and met a guy fell in love that’s the
way it always starts I know I met a guy
unhealthy relationship yeah the
relationship became sexual from there
you know I did have a daughter I had a
daughter at 19 okay from there there
were multiple abortions it I’ve just
felt myself just just doing in a way
this I felt like I didn’t have meaning
guy I didn’t understand why I didn’t
understand just that you were between 19
and what age when you were having the
abortions and how many abortions did you
have
it was for four boy abortions and it was
and these are things that I I don’t even
I’m gonna be honest with you I haven’t
even thought about like trying to
calculate but I can say it hurts that
part hurts I can save from probably 20
to 22 mm-hmm so it was in a short period
it was a short period of time so it
almost sounds like because here’s my
question and these are kind of tough
questions I hope you don’t mind I’m kind
of nosy Tracey I’m so no that’s okay so
here’s the thing
I’m wondering why would your choice be
abortion which ISM is costly it is
costly not only financially but
emotionally it’s hard on your body why
that and of course it’s the loss of life
more than all but why would that be your
choice as opposed to if you’re going to
you being a sexual relationship just
choosing birth control mm-hmm so so why
not decide okay I’m just gonna try to
keep this from ever happening so that I
don’t have to walk down this road was it
thinking about that and just nothing
logical about yeah and to sum it up
selfish I didn’t think of what I was
doing you know you hear people telling
you it’s a blob of tissue I want it to
believe that but there was something
inside of me saying no was there any
family around you that knew any of this
was happening during this season in her
life no no family actually knew about it
I suspect it my mom after maybe the
third she saw some pills cos after
you’ve had a little portion they give
you a certain pill to take and it’s by
antibiotic and she saw that she saw the
pill case and she’s a nurse so I think
she figured it out and she said to me
you know you need to rest
but we never talked about it so you
think she has to that she had an inkling
back then yes did you ever talk about it
with your mom later later what maybe
about I am 47 years old and maybe about
four years ago I actually told her that
I did have multiple abortions and and we
just sat and we cried you know I’m
interested to know when you hear
Melissa’s story you hear about this life
that was saved back then you say that
deep down you knew that it was life and
yet for some reason you still made that
decision why do you think that young
women women in general in our day and
age are making that or feeling like it’s
their choice even though deep down I
believe a lot of people know this life
they know it and still they’re making
that choice what’s the dichotomy there
what why do you think that is is
just a hardness of heart you think it’s
selfishness is that the end result why
do you think for me personally I can
just just say that I know it was
selfishness I only thought of myself I I
didn’t even think about okay the the
part about okay this is my baby I’m its
mother that never even came and into my
mind you just wanted to be free to live
your life right I had I had a daughter I
already had a daughter and it was you
know what just thinking it was I didn’t
want people to see me as that person
that stereotype of having so many babies
and I had the pressure of that and the
pressure of you know what people might
think of me and that led me to just feel
as okay this is the best thing for me
but not thinking the best thing for my
baby was there ever one of those four
times you know I kinda wanna ask you
this because this is it’s taking you far
far back in your memory but a lot of
women they have no frame of reference of
what the procedure would be like what
does it feel like to sit there waiting
for your turn to go back and then just
what that scenario feels like to you in
your heart and physically as well but
what is that whole experience do to you
as a woman I can remember my last
abortion I remember I drove by myself
the my other abortions I actually had
local anesthesia where I went to sleep
and so when I woke up I didn’t remember
anything this particular time since I
went by myself
they had to do I could not be put to
sleep when I got to the clinic I
remember this lady did you realize that
before you went by yourself that yes
it’s going to be different this time I I
realized it but I said
maybe that 1% chance that they’ll let me
do it go under local anesthesia okay I
went there was a lady who met me at the
car they were picketers out and she
jumped in a car and I’m thinking oh this
is a nice lady you know and she started
screaming at the picketers she said
who’s gonna help her witness baby are
you gonna raise it really yes and I can
remember feeling okay all right I can
just calm down now so it’s a random okay
this is a stranger a woman jumps in your
car that’s basically angry that the
picketers are there and she’s saying
this is her choice yes y’all leave her
alone and let her go inside and do and
you felt what by this by the stranger in
your car
somebody’s on myself somebody’s on your
side do you think that if it had been
the opposite someone else on the other
side of the issue hopping in and looking
at you and your face and saying you
don’t have to do this
there is another alternative let’s go
talk about those would you have been as
receptive to that I’ve had it where I
went to counseling before and they said
set me in front of a television to look
at videos mm-hmm not talking to a person
so I didn’t take it seriously so the
video of the abortion I know what you’re
talking about where they they have to
show you what’s gonna happen to you
before that video was not as effective
no as a human being looking you in the
eyes and saying I needed somebody to
talk to me I need to I needed someone to
explain to me what I was doing to get
into my whatever it is you know I was
thinking at the time I get it connected
to you so you think if he would have had
somebody in your life that would have
done that a college counselor a friend a
mom and aunt a cousin somebody to say
you don’t have to do this there are
other alternatives yes I will help point
the way do you think he would have been
receptive to that I would have been
receptive to it
because I was at that time I was young I
was like I keep saying you know just
just selfish in my behavior I needed
someone to stick it to me good what it
is that I was doing and that would would
have been the only way yeah the only way
I have a friend who in college she had a
similar experience and she describes it
as very much like you’re saying where
you’re just sort of selfish you know how
all of us probably were at some season
or another in your life where you’re
really just thinking about yourself and
you want to do whatever you can to just
clear the path for yourself and she’s
describing very much like what what you
said where she just was doing it because
it just kept her from being you know
invaded with this interruption of a baby
but she said she ran across a nurse
actually was a school nurse she went
into and I think she was taking a
pregnancy test and I think her attitude
I guess was so nonchalant about the fact
that she was just going to go have an
abortion that the nurse lit into her and
the nurse just went off on her basically
like you said you needed somebody to
stick it to you
she said this nurse was she didn’t even
know stuck it to her and said do you
realize what you’re doing do you realize
that that not only is this you’re
tampering with the life of a baby but
you’re tampering with your own life it’s
your own future at stake it’s your own
existence your own health not only
physically but emotionally and otherwise
and she said it was like a wake-up call
just having someone yes
wave a flag in front of her face not sit
her down in front of a video mm-hmm yeah
that’s what that’s the wake-up call I
needed that’s you know I look at I
actually talk with a lot of young girls
about abortion and and you know their
choices because life is about choices it
is I made a choice I made a choice that
was the wrong or wrong decision you know
but I talked to them about choices and
to the choice that you know about
choosing life well I’m gonna talk about
with you when we come back from this
break just the effects that that had on
you going forward
why it stopped – I want to know why the
fourth one was the last one what
happened to kind of change that course
and that pattern in your life and then
how you found grace and mercy through
that how you’ve been able to pass it on
we’re going to talk about that when we
come back
hi I’m Priscilla and I wanted to take an
opportunity to invite you personally to
join me for a seventh session Bible
study on the armor of God will dive
deeply into what it means to be equipped
to stand firm against the schemes of the
enemy he is very real and he has been so
strategic and targeted his attacks
against us why shouldn’t we be equally
strategic and targeted in standing firm
against him and you and I have an
opportunity to suit up to put on some
armor that works and to go to battle and
to see victory declared in our lives and
the lives of those people that we this
Bible study will be one that would
change our lives forever and will help
us to walk in victory so plan to join me
won’t you the armor of God
welcome back glad you’re still joining
us we’ve been having an interesting
conversation with miss Tracy who’s been
helping us to understand the reasons why
you had an abortion we heard from
Melissa about what it’s like to be a
survivor of abortion and now from your
vantage point the reasons why a woman
would do it but also what it’s like to
have an abortion so we we kind of met
you right at the entrance someone jumped
in your car made you feel powerful and
strong about the choice that you were
making going forward and had that been a
person from another angle with a
different viewpoint credible to listen
to them – so here you go you drive a
shaken use and wake up girl you walk
into the abortion clinic to walk us
through what what it’s like to have an
abortion you just like you’re in the
doctor’s office you sign in you know you
wait your turn you might have women that
are there that have on wigs that are in
disguise or you know just didn’t you
know want to be recognized when it was
my turn you do go into counseling the
counseling is do you want to have an
abortion are you sure and that was I’m
gonna be honest that’s pretty much the
extent of what I received during that
time when I went in this was the fourth
this was the last and final abortion
that I can remember when I was put on
the table I can remember the ultrasound
machine and I didn’t recognize until
later that they were looking at my baby
and then there was the sounds there was
the sounds of like a lawn mower that
that they turned on like a generator
almost like it turned on and that’s when
the procedure started you know they did
have something to call me but nothing
could have calm was it painful
you feel your baby being ripped out of
me that’s what I felt
a piece of me
what’s being taken up
of my bucketing and something and I
chose to do do you think if you had been
asleep during that one like you were for
the other three that you would feel this
sense of sadness and loss or do you
think that it was because you were awake
that you got the fullness of what this
was what was really happening here I
think that was my turning point that was
my turning point to to know that Tracy
look what you’re doing you know they’re
looking at your baby and there’s someone
looking at it being ripped out of you
kind of sucked out yes
there’s someone counting the parts to
make sure that each piece is being taken
out I had to digest all of that before I
couldn’t see that I couldn’t feel that
right I didn’t know that you know it’s
it’s funny even say I to even hear
myself say I didn’t know that but in
reality I didn’t wake up until they made
me stay awake yeah and sometimes you
just need somebody to wake you up so
that you get the fullness of what what
is really happening and it what it means
to you and what did the next years and
months and years look like in your life
emotionally and otherwise how are you
able to sort of move forward and keep it
together and receive God’s grace and
forgiveness about all this well it was a
it was a hard road I didn’t understand
why I felt the way I did there was a
feeling of missing I missed something I
and I didn’t understand what that
something was but it was my motherly
instinct kicking in or what
what I was missing I didn’t there was a
time when all I wanted to do was other
things I wanted to just stay busy I just
need it to stay busy cuz you’re 20 to 23
now yes yes yes and the relationship in
the relationship I that I was in we had
we had broken up and I can remember
praying to God you know lord please
please just help me please just help me
and I didn’t believe that I was worthy
in any sense of his help at all of the
help of the Lord
mm-hmm and you’re like I didn’t think I
didn’t I didn’t feel it and so what did
it look like for you to get back to a
place of healthy relationship between
you got so you’re saying you felt guilt
about what you had done
yes so there was distance in your I
think that’s that that’s true for so
many women right for any number of
different things you know women and men
where we where we choose sin or
rebellion or something that we know is
not right we choose it and then it
creates this distance between us and God
how do you get over that hump mm-hmm it
was only through the grace of God that
that got me through because it was just
too much but did you have an older woman
maybe that came into your life that you
were able to or friend that you were
able to tell this to to help you to sort
of get out of the rut one of the things
that happened to me when I just felt
this longing to to help I felt this
longing to go into a ministry that
wanted to help posterboard of women or
and women who are thinking of a
contemplating abortion so I went to to
my pastor and I asked him I said do you
know any places that I can go or just a
counsel and he said yeah he said that
Layton is a as a member of our church
and I was like oh I just wanted to kick
him you know like oh you have an answer
for me yeah so I went there
and they said to me one of the questions
that was on the application is the
volunteer application is have you had an
abortion they looked at it I was like
okay they don’t want me to volunteer
I checked the yes button and they told
me that I had to go through counseling
in order to volunteer I contemplated not
volunteering but I did it I went through
counseling and there’s there’s actually
a class called surrendering a secret
yeah that is that takes you through the
grief you know post abortive women don’t
get an opportunity to grieve this is a
conversation that you just can’t walk up
to your two one a person that you don’t
know even a friend even a family member
and say you know what I’ve had an
abortion or it’s not an easy topic right
that’s the name surrendering the
different because it is a choice to have
to surrender that part of your life open
it up but healing starts there don’t you
think yes yeah so this class
surrendering the Sikh secret it’s
something that we need to put a link to
so that you can have access to that
because it is something that brought
healing to you yes and that I think has
brought healing to thousands and
thousands of women yes who are in this
position right now and just need to walk
through that so now you’re married yes
how long have been married we’ve been
married for about 23 years 23 years and
your children we have three children you
know we have a daughter
yes and then we have two boys mm-hmm and
what do you tell your daughter you know
what I did was how old now she is 27
okay she’s 27 years old kay and I’ve
actually all my kids I told them I told
them about the abortion the abortions
and they still love me yeah when it was
hard telling them it was hard especially
for my daughter
because she’s always she said to me I’ve
always wanted to have a sister and to
look back
that’s that was something that I took
away from her what about your husband
did you tell him about that early on or
is that something he didn’t know until
later he didn’t know that until later I
actually told him one night while we
were in the bed I put the pillow over my
over my head and he listened to the
muffled sounds of me telling him about
my abortion but he under abortion what
he understood and his reaction his
reaction was I love you don’t ever think
that my love goes away yeah I think
there is if there’s one main message to
come out of this conversation I really
think that it is there is more Grace and
love and forgiveness yes then I think
any of us think there is when we have
walked any path that is wrong in this
case abortion I think that when we open
ourselves up there’s love there waiting
to be given to us waiting to be given to
us and so if there is a woman I want to
hear from both of you if there is a
woman that’s I mean she’s on the cusp
right now of making this choice and
honestly she is leaning toward abortion
because it’s to her seems easier simpler
cleaner get out of it you know quickly
but you said that if someone had just
said to you what you needed to hear in
that moment to help you to not make that
choice it could have really made a
difference and I just wonder if both of
you would speak to just speak to that
woman what would you say to her I would
say to her that God loves you
you know one of the things that I had a
problem with was my identity my
self-identity is knowing who I was in
Christ Who I am in Christ I found that
one of the hardest things about abortion
is forgiving yourself you know we know
deep down that God he forgives us
forgiving ourselves is one of the
hardest things and for you you know go
to a class go to so you know just like
what
Priscilla said go to the link you know
go to I’m surrendering the secret and
you know fine healing it’s a healing
journey you know go back you’re gonna
have to go back in order to be healed in
order to just learn how to just just
love again in order and in order to just
look at life differently you just choose
life for yourself also
Emel so what would you say to someone
who’s considering that option for
somebody who’s considering abortion
right now I would say no matter what
you’re going through abortion is not the
solution to what you’re facing you know
an abortion is going to end a life and
it’s going to change your life forever
if you feel alone if you feel
unsupported if you feel like you don’t
have the resources to support yourself
and a child there are so many pregnancy
centers waiting to assist you there are
churches so many different ministries
that exists to support someone so I just
want people to know that it is not the
solution and there is always support
waiting for them mmm thank you both so
much there is a picture of life of grace
of forgiveness of God’s miracles poured
out over us in both scenarios and you’ve
both given us insight and face and voice
to that and we’re very very grateful
will you guys please help me to thank
Jim for being our program