ABOUT BETHEL CHURCH
Bethel Church in Redding, CA, is a congregation rooted in the love of God and dedicated to worldwide transformation through revival. It’s our goal for God’s love to be manifest in signs, wonders, and miracles. The atmosphere at Bethel is charged with faith and exuberant joy, which manifests in all we do. We believe we’re on the edge of the greatest revival of all time. It’s our vision to see history become His-story as the kingdom of this world becomes the kingdom of our God. We welcome you to join us in this adventure!
when the holy spirit has his way in us
it’s going to be seen through
demonstrations of power
faith purity lifestyle it’s all going to
be also going to be the endurance until
the miracle comes
so do you
believe that it’s god’s will to heal
everyone is that like bethel standard
teaching or
i i have to approach that it is
i have to approach it’s always god’s
will
and uh
and my lead on that is everybody the
father sent jesus to
he healed
everyone who came to jesus he healed
even even the sovereignty woman the one
who would have been disqualified
because she wasn’t uh wasn’t a jew he
still
was moved by her faith and healed her so
in following him
i have to take that approach
i have had
two exceptions that i can think of uh
when i’ve been praying uh one uh one
lady as i was praying for i could tell
you know what when you walk
when you walk sensitive to the holy
spirit you don’t want to grieve you
don’t want to quench you’re you’re in
that you know you’re walking that road
in a relationship with him i could tell
that if i prayed for healing it would
grieve him
and and so it was a different idea it
wasn’t like if it’s the lord if it’s
your will oh no
so it’s not like i’m having that um
in your prayer or in your thought life
because in your it’s like practical
theology like you approach everybody
like the lord’s going to move right now
yeah yeah and i can’t pray if it’s your
will because for me that’s a prayer of
unbelief okay because he’s already
revealed to me it is his will
in his provision for healing and
personally i use isaiah 53 but you can
you know you can come in from many
different angles it’s an aspect of the
kingdom which is a present reality
uh jesus made provision for it so i have
to i have to pursue it in that light
and then but in in my really you know
it’s appointed unto a man to die so
there is a point of death
and uh i don’t know that that should be
the subject now but uh
but uh i remember praying for this lady
i was uh visiting as it was a mother of
one of our staff members
and uh and i was in she had been sick
for a while and as i was praying for her
i could tell she’s supposed to go home
she’s supposed to go home and that’s an
awkward that’s an awkward moment
it’s not as a pastor because we’re in
those situations often
but to to pray for that
is is a bit awkward for me
i mean i
i don’t have the impartation of death
you know
but uh
but to pray
father i i just pray that you just
filled with peace
and that in your perfect timing you
would take her home she went home within
i think two hours wow she had been sick
for a while so there was something that
took place just
i i don’t know it was more like maybe
releasing
you know sometimes people will hold on
because of a sense of obligation or
whatever i don’t know how any of that
works so that’s that’s way above my pay
grade but yeah but there was that that
prayer of blessing and release and and
the lord took a room so it’s intriguing
to me though because you like even
though if you don’t have the if it’s
your will but you do have the i will
keep listening to the holy spirit
voice as i’m moving
in my prayer for this person and so it’s
not quite a formula
every once it feels a bit like that like
we kind of say just assume god wants to
heal everybody because that was the
model of jesus and so i think when we’re
talking to students we’re like yeah just
have confidence the lord wants to
to heal everyone yes yes but you’re
modeling a little bit of like so have
faith move in confidence but keep
listening
well uh i yes absolutely but but my
listening isn’t solved that isn’t gonna
happen yes or no it’s not so i can
figure out do they die or do they live
you know it’s not that it’s i’m
listening because what what do you do
because sometimes i’ll be praying for
somebody and i can tell
oh they need to forgive someone
so i won’t accuse them i i won’t do i
say you have unforgiven i won’t do that
i’ll just say hey just out of curiosity
uh sometimes this helps us to to see
somebody get healed um can you think of
anyone that you need to forgive and i’ve
had people say oh yeah and i said well
who who would that be and so they’ll
they’ll they’ll tell me and i i don’t
ask for great detail because i i don’t
need to embarrass anybody but i say how
about we forgive them and i’ve seen it
time and time again they say okay and
they forgive them and then they’re
healed so i’m listening not
not to see if they live or die yeah
because i expect them to live i just
want to know
what do i what do you want me to what
are you up to yeah yeah
you know jesus at one point he just
declares the word go home your servant
is is alive he’s well uh to another
uh you know go wash in the pool of
siloam you know there’s different
directives at different times
and and i’ve had moments in in a
in where i’ve given somebody a direction
somebody who’s missing a part of a
muscle in their leg
and i said just walk to the back and
then come and see me and by the time
they got to the back and came back to
see me
the lord had had
done that miracle so it there was an
action that was needed
uh
for faith to be illustrated it wasn’t
some noble act you know i’m not asking
some guy to jump on his broken ankle
that’s that’s that’s not necessary
that’s showmanship and we don’t need
that but what we do need is to give
people
an action to connect their faith to
and and and i’ve seen it time and time
again uh it may be the forgiveness issue
it may be uh just a simple act of some
sort but uh but even the forgiveness you
don’t use it as a formula like i it’s
just you’re probably sick because you
have unforgiveness like it’s not that
it’s your listening for the reading of
the holy spirit in that moment what’s
the step of growth and transformation
for this beloved person that’s in front
of you exactly how can i help how can it
be part
exactly
jesus didn’t use that formula that’s the
reason i don’t
no yeah didn’t have that as a
cookie-cutter response yeah you know he
didn’t have a
three four steps that he went through
with each person he did different so i’m
just trying to learn that yeah
so is it
the role of faith then like how is
someone not healed because they didn’t
have enough faith is that what is that
like our standard line like you weren’t
healed because you didn’t have enough
faith how does so what’s that
relationship of faith faith faith is an
issue i would never want to downplay
because jesus honored it you know when
he saw it you know he said man i haven’t
seen such faith in all of israel and so
he would celebrate great faith but the
thing to remember is even when he saw
tiny tiny faith
like the guy who says if you can you
know when you’re questioning god’s
ability if you can would you heal my son
uh jesus turns the table he says if you
can believe all things are possible to
those who believe so the point is is
that even where there was
very small faith he still brought the
miracle but he would address the level
of faith before he did the miracle
i think to give them access to move
stronger in faith you know so but no we
we don’t we will
disciplines may be a hard word but we
will correct somebody on our team that
ever points to another person says you
weren’t healed because you didn’t have
faith that’s cruel
that’s just cruel absolutely and the
scripture says it’s the prayer of faith
that heals the sick so it’s not the
person even who’s coming sometimes i’ll
have people come and say man i just
don’t even have faith for this and there
are times i feel
it’s only happened a few times but there
are times i feel
the presence of god the word of the lord
in that moment so strong
i’ll tell them you don’t have to have
any faith
i have enough for both of us
i wish that was the standard but it’s
not it’s just rare it’s not though no
i wish
but but i’ve had it happen i’ve had it
happen where i was so confident that god
is on this moment
that
and i know usually when people are
evaluating their faith
they come up short always yeah and so
they don’t always know how to look for
faith in their own life and so that’s
why i try to steer them away from it i
say listen i’ll i’ll i’ll believe for
both of us and it’s not to turn
attention towards me obviously but
listen i’ll stand for both of us and
then we’ll see a miracle and so we never
turn it uh towards the person i want
them to have great faith of course we
all want to be growing in faith and
absolutely absolutely but i but i’m not
going to blame them for the outcome
you know we talk about sometimes that
faith
the lord without faith it’s impossible
to please god so faith’s in the equation
somewhere like faith needs to be
operating at some level
but um
we talked about just it might be the
prayer it might be the prey might be the
environment and then we’ve all seen some
unusual miracles when there’s no faith
like doesn’t feel like we had much faith
doesn’t feel like they had much faith
and the lord moved so
even kind of like demanding it’s there
doesn’t seem to make a ton of sense in
in our practical experience where the
lord has moved when neither one expected
much to happen exactly
i treat faith like like
i open a jar whatever was in there just
evaporated so if i go look for faith in
me it’s it’s just the wrong direction
for me my approach is i can always obey
i can always obey whatever you say and
have confidence
in who he is exactly yeah i my obedience
is based on who he is yeah
he’s given me a direction put your hand
on the blind eye i can sense that’s what
i’m supposed to do
um i can always obey at the end i can
look back and say that took faith or
it’s just raw obedience or it’s just you
know the bottom line is always just the
grace of god yeah so uh
yeah and i imagine it’s a conversation
with the lord too because i mean
once there’s a miracle happens or it
doesn’t it’s like papa what what was
that about what what happened there
where you’re trying to learn
his ways in that moment and then also
what the lord is up to in his
multifaceted wisdom of you know because
we’ve had folks who don’t get healed in
that moment but weeks later or yeah you
know folks healed after eight years of
of being prayed for yeah and you’re like
papa what why now
[Laughter]
yeah i i i don’t
i don’t ask why
but i want to learn what he’s like okay
yeah i don’t i don’t need an explanation
i’m not offended
by a process i i i stay as far away from
that as i possibly can i don’t analyze
the situation what it has happened now
not before or whatever i just i
celebrate when it happens if it doesn’t
that’s where enduring faith comes in
and i i remember i was in a i was in a
meeting where
a gal came up for prayer and i and i
just started to you know if we have a
default it’s that we lay hands on
somebody and pray and i just started to
pray they had arthritis in every joint
of their body
every part of their body they were just
crippled with pain
and i went to start to put my hand up
and i felt so strong the holy spirit
said don’t touch them
and then i thought well i’ll just begin
to pray but he said don’t even pray
he said just watch
and so as i’m standing there talking to
the person i was trying to figure out
what do i do
what do i do you know because there’s
got to be some point of
of
contact for faith or something you know
and i felt this is a little strange but
i felt this heat on the back of my neck
and i went
is the lord touching your your neck and
your shoulder area right now and the
lady went yeah i said well is there any
pain left she goes no there’s none
whatsoever
and then i started realizing oh the lord
is showing me
literally i’d have a sensation on my
body and i could tell what just got
healed
so he wouldn’t allow me to pray he
wouldn’t allow me to touch nor would he
allow me to give the command as jesus
did he would he would he would give the
command
wouldn’t allow me to do it but i but he
showed me uh just my arms i i could feel
this presence of god on my arms i said
move your arms around and they did until
all went all the way down their knees
and their feet and they were completely
healed but it’s that it’s the it’s the
willingness
it’s the willingness to look dumb first
of all
you know yeah
you have to embrace that part because
sometimes sometimes you’re going to
think you’re hearing from god and you’re
not yeah and you own up to it perfectly
yeah we own up to it but other times you
do and it it encourages you in the
journey to live with the kind of risk
that it takes to see those kinds of
miracles but i didn’t pray one prayer
didn’t command one thing didn’t do
anything that that i would typically do
in that context and and they were healed
head to toe
i want to get back to enduring faith
that you mentioned and yeah but it
strikes me that what you’re saying it
has a lot of nuance and so sometimes
when we teach
the nuance isn’t there we you know it’s
god’s will god’s will to heal everybody
you know just pray with faith and here
we go and pray for your neighbor so
we’ll lead in bold strokes sometimes um
that
uh that are necessary for people to
break into new experiences or sometimes
we don’t know what the lord will do in
those moments when you just have people
turn to the congregation and pray for
each other and healing breaks out so
it’s a there’s a moment of faith but
you’re describing um again not a
mechanism or a right you’re asserting
right every time but a relationship with
the lord that has beneficial for you and
who you’re becoming and the person
you’re praying for
exactly that exactly seems like like you
probably use more of that nuance
sometimes people run into our message a
little bit but again we don’t want to
get so nuanced that we we quit praying
with faith for joy or uh integrity so
it’s a bit of a dance you know i do
those things i don’t want to create a
theology around what didn’t happen yeah
that’s that’s a really big deal for me
my approach to the faith things is i’ll
tell people i say listen faith brings
answers
enduring faith brings answers with
character
so sometimes we’re in a journey we’re in
a process and the lord is building
he’s building us
he’s not just doing something through us
it’s not just about the miracle or the
deliverance or what whatever it might be
it’s it’s about people becoming like
christ
and
enduring faith is a part of that a power
you know the whole uh baptism of the
holy spirit for the purpose of power
power was for the miracle but it was
also for the endurance until the miracle
came you see it all through the book of
acts that both were manifestations and
so when the holy spirit has his way in
us it’s going to be seen through
demonstrations of power
faith purity lifestyle but it’s all
going to be also going to be the
endurance until the miracle comes yeah
so you’ve mentioned enduring faith and
you know as i think about this like one
of the
amazing saints of our time has been
johnny erickson tata and yeah
and um i remember in the 70s when she
had her accident and she’s of those who
don’t know
incredible heart for jesus you got to
see her speak about just about two years
ago and was just so moved by the faith
that she moves in and the faith of her
husband who uh her caregiver it was a
it was a wonderful experience to see
this saint of the lord speak
um and i think about you know that her
situation of not having a breakthrough
in healing and just finding the heart of
the lord for her and in this season as
well
and and as i contemplated like dan how
would you respond and i’m like probably
not that beautifully you know yeah
um she’s been super honest about hey
there’s some days i you know hate i hate
at all and
i want to drive my caregivers away from
me and all that so she’s been really
transparent about this
but but there’s i sometimes wonder in
that deal of like
i would want to have faith that is
enduring like she’s manifesting
absolutely
i’d also want faith to still have
somebody come in and lay hands on me
every day or once a week you know i was
trying to figure out how do we
mix that beauty of what she’s
experiencing in the lord in the midst of
her trial with our love of breakthrough
and our love of the lord alleviating
suffering is that so one of the ways i
was kind of doing that was like okay i’d
want to have faith like today could be
the day it’s been 20 years yeah it
hasn’t happened yet but today it could
be the day yeah but also that that sort
of coping enduring faith
is it how do you
can’t wrap my head around it yeah yeah
what i want to do is do two things i
want to make sure that i protect the
dignity of her moment
the dignity of her life she is so
illustrating christ i would never want
to
say or do anything that would make her
or anybody in her condition i have
friends that i that i’m ministering to
that are in very very similar uh
condition
and i would never want them to somehow
feel less than or
that they don’t have enough faith or
that uh somehow this is
you know god’s punishment on their life
that nonsense i don’t want to do that
but i also don’t want to create a
theology
that
i don’t want to create theology
around what doesn’t happen yeah you know
i i mean i i don’t have good ex i don’t
have explanations at all
what i do have
is a pool of bethesda you know
one guy was healed uh history tells us
there could be as many as 900 a thousand
people around that pool
there’s only one person healed does it
mean that jesus rejected the rest no
jesus wasn’t showing us
he was showing us what one person could
do that was yielded to the father he was
illustrating that heart to us and so the
bible celebrates the one yeah in that
moment without condemning the others
and this kind of a thing
well i’ve got it in my own family you
know my son is is such a champion in
faith and a champion of so many things
but he’s got a hearing loss that is is
quite profound and he functions so well
in life but i’ll come home with
testimonies of of healing healing of
deaf ears
he’s prayed for the deaf and had had
them healed you know but i remember a
while back in a staff meeting i i was
sharing a story about several deaf
people that they could hear and i looked
over at my son
and he looked at me and he said he
mouthed we’re one day close or dead
oh that just wrecked me wow that that
that he he still has been able to
protect his heart
to not be jaded you know after this many
years being prayed for so many times
yeah some weird stories too people
putting fingers in his ears
we do all kinds of weird things
as people but uh yeah but yeah and he’s
just really protected his heart and he’s
really a hero
to me in so many ways because he’s he’s
nature to protect his heart open for the
miracle yeah and yet he he’s not holding
god hostage yeah to the miracle it’s
like if you really love me it’s not that
sort of thing that’s
that’s a cruel position for us to be in
and to put him in yeah so he’s eric’s
living with that both the breakthrough
faith and the coping faith the enduring
faith and that these aren’t exclusive
they kind of there are situations where
they live together yeah and like we talk
about even folks that have had a
breakthrough after 13 years i’m
pain-free you’re like well you would wow
you were living with a lot of coping
faith
until this breakthrough faith kind of
came into the scene and reordered your
life or reset the picture yeah exactly