What is prayer? Does it work? Is it scientific? In this episode Priscilla Shirer and I discuss prayer from a spiritual and scientific angle.
[Music]
[Applause]
hi I’m dr. Caroline leaf and welcome to
the dr. leaf Oh today I have a very
special guest in the studio with me
priscilla shirer
and we’re going to be talking about
prayer faith and the mind and we’re also
going to be diving into the science of
pray joining welcome to the dr. leaf
show if you haven’t yet subscribed go to
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updated with all things related to mind
and mental health well with me in the
studio today
I have one of my dearest friends one of
the most amazing people on the planet
someone that I have so much respect for
and someone who so CENTAC and so genuine
and so amazing priscilla shirer thank
you so much my dear friend the studio so
excited that you I’m so excited that
you’re here and you’re so busy and I
appreciate so much that you’ve taken the
time to come and share but I know that
everything you say are pearls of wisdom
we all feel about you
mutually love each others are so great
with my family voted that you the best
Bible teacher that we you know we could
listen to you for hours
hilarious you’re brilliant you just make
complex things so simple and you just
have such a an incredible attitude to
life and you’re so real you know with
your kids and your boys and your husband
oh my gosh laundry laundry yes I have
heard you teacher tell on that so many
times I lose the laundry experience – oh
my gosh there’s so much laundry was
children for kids you actually right
exactly
it’s fishy when I do all the sports yeah
constantly washing and folding clothes
oh it’s never ending story but for sorry
you know and one of the things that I
really wanted to dive into today is the
concept of prayer because it’s something
that we all know it’s a vitally
important as you know this connection to
God and I’ve been doing a lot of
research on how we are designed
physically at connect with a spirit of
God in 15 seconds so it’s literally you
know when we talk about renewing the
mind and bringing thoughts into
captivity that is pray it’s a constant
communication with God it is and it
reminds me of the scripture verse that
says pray without ceasing
you sort of wonder how is that possible
so when you teach on connecting with the
Spirit of God every 10 seconds it is
that concept it’s that scripture verse
it is this constant moment by moment
daily as you would say sort of getting
into superposition and looking at
yourself in relationship to how you’re
honoring God with this moment with this
conversation how my body language how my
the words that I’m saying are honoring
to the Lord in this moment those
constant check-ins yeah that’s a prayer
that’s prayer it’s it’s so powerful
because it’s so much more than just as
going a prayer closet in the morning
like we’ve been kind of the most trained
to do growing up in a very years and
years of you know in within a religious
environment right it’s it’s a constant
lifestyle I think what’s really and I
don’t have you found this because since
the war room I know you get so much the
film war and Priscilla did an incredible
for me they haven’t really seen that you
need to see it warum you did that they
came out two years ago he’s been for
years now oh yeah and you believe that
maybe three gosh time just goes so
quickly and their whole thing was really
about pray wrs pray yes and pray is the
last time pray as a solution and we get
so many emails and I know you probably
get the same thing of people saying your
pray for me work with this problem or I
need pray and most begin God and then I
go to these churches and I’m teaching
and people are like begging God for now
I’m thinking doesn’t the Bible already
teach us that you know Jesus rose from
the cross said it is already done yeah
you know and this is God beyond space
and time and and isn’t the other Hebrews
11:1 that says faith is the substance of
things hoped for the evidence of things
not yet soon so praise really is pretty
not accessing substance and evidence I
think that’s the key word is accents
accent that is the word so Ephesians
chapter one says that every spiritual
blessing has already we already have
every spiritual blessing yeah so what
prayer does is it allows us to access
the spiritual blessings that have
already been allotted to us so you’re
right begging is not necessarily a
posture for a child of God because the
inheritance is already rightfully yours
as a result of the price he’s already
paid so what prayer does really prayer
is a god-given key
that allows us to unlock the resources
of heaven and have them unleashed on the
landscape of Earth in our lives and our
daily lives and so what war room did I
think is kind of remind people about the
intentionality of Prayer that it’s not
some afterthought or some theoretical
thing that you should do on occasion or
that other people do that or ocularly
spiritual spiritual or that it’s not
supposed to be locked away into just the
morning quiet time or the evening
devotional very much it should be those
times of concentrated prayer as well but
like you said it’s a lifestyle of
intentionally thinking about how can I
communicate with God intentionally
deliberately and strategically to make
sure that I’m applying what has been
allotted to me does the promises of
Scripture that I’m applying those to the
the points of my life right actually I’m
seeing that those promises need to be
fleshed out and need to come to bear in
regards to stuff I’m facing in this
relationship or on my job or in my
finances are in my health how can I
intentionally make sure to grab hold of
the promises of God and apply them and
live in light of those promises in
regards to what I’m facing in my life so
prayer is not just a bunch of random
words it is what has God already given
to me and how can I say Lord I am ready
now to receive this and have this apply
to what I am facing in my life right now
that is brilliant
it’s excellent explanation because what
you’re saying essentially is that people
need to recognize that the solution
exists but it’s not either I always say
it’s all in a baked cake for God doesn’t
give us through ok leave actually yeah
we actually have to get in that zone and
really access and decide you know on the
find it use our intellect work with God
you know vessels good luck Jake build
and really find those inheritances which
is exist and I think one of the biggest
miracles of Prayer is not necessarily
that prayer you know that God through
prayer can change our circumstances of
course he can he’s a miracle working God
but one of the biggest miracles of
prayer is that in prayer he changes us
that our perspective and our vantage
point the
promises we grab hold up the choices
that we make we see ourselves clearly in
prayer because we get a clearer view of
God in prayer so then we face the
circumstance that may not change our
spouse may not change our marital
difficulty may not change the financial
struggle may not change our health may
take a little time yeah it’s right that
those things may or may not change but
we change our heart becomes different
our mind is molded into the image of
Christ Jesus we change in prayer so then
our lives become you know a different
sort of experience not because everybody
else changed in everything else change
but because we did that’s what prayer
does I love this I absolutely love this
and that is so completely accurate
because when you get into that love zone
that always talked about the you having
the fear zone you are gonna love it it’s
cool I love that we need lots of those
in our heads when you get into that so
we are getting a new perspective we are
conceptualizing and looking at it in
terms of love and you know what you’re
saying and I’m just in so deep it owes
to the spiritual explanation that you’re
giving and and in my head as a scientist
all the science is popping up and you
know it’s so it was very fascinating
facilitate that I think you’ve heard me
teachers before that this the Oxford
mathematician Sir Roger Penrose he talks
about the fact that we are embedded in
love it’s such a what does that mean you
know you just said all the inheritance
you’ve given all the Scriptures talking
you not all of them you’ve mentioned
certain scriptures about how the
inheritance is the available for us and
that we need to get in and get God’s
perspective so that we can access you
know you said a key word access the
problem is we got to realize that we
have to do the work of accessing and
then accessing and Sir Roger Penrose
shows mathematically and with quantum
physics that as humans we are embedded
in ethical values of love and the
solutions for in space time and beyond
because there’s multiple universes and
there’s this mathematical equate these
these complex mathematical equations
showing the beauty and the logic and the
intelligence of what we actually are
immersed in so God’s showing us through
science
that we love in our solutions and that
with prey we are learning to access our
solutions and that is a working boat and
I think that’s another problem that I
see in people really praying like they
should in that they don’t realize that
you have to access with work there’s
work involved is you getting your mind
it’s not just going to put you know
close your eyes on God’s gonna give you
the baked cake but someone lays on hands
and now you know this is automatic
transference osmosis versus happening
these are working both yeah well that’s
you know the scripture says work out
your salvation in fear and trembling and
so your salvation in terms of eternity
the price for that was paid you and I no
longer owe the debt for our own sin once
we accept Christ as our Savior we are
receiving his gift
so salvation in that sense is done it is
finished but we’re still on earth that’s
the water on earth if we want to
experience life with God that’s the part
that requires work intentionality
deliberate focus on the promises of God
on living in a way that honors God on
using the keys that he’s given us the
love letter of his word the key of
prayer on humility garners you know in
choosing a lifestyle of humility instead
of pride humility so that we garner the
the attention the support of God the
favor of God in our life those are
choices that we have to make so in the
scriptures there are probably more than
or up to 8,000 different promises that
are given to sons and daughters but most
of them he did not place in our hand
most of them he placed in our reach
meaning things we don’t reach if we
don’t grab hold if we don’t actually
like he said to Joshua listen the
promised land is already yours but every
place you you put your foot down yes
that you will have access to it’s yours
but you got to go put your feet down
Exodus yeah you got to do it so lazy
Christianity is not going to benefit us
we’ll get to heaven but we won’t
experience the heaven on earth that we
were intended to experience unless we do
the hard work of putting our feet down
on the promises oh you said some
incredible constant
and one of the things you said that’s
very powerful see if we don’t do the
hard work if we don’t choose to actually
step into the promised land so using the
Christianese stepping into the promised
land
in life we’re going to have to choose to
realize that we have ability to we have
the ability to access the power of God
step into that that loves oh and step
into that that the promises that God has
placed within the within within the
atmosphere that we live in we immersed
in God but we have to do the work and I
think that’s one of the biggest problems
is there’s such a mindset in the church
of people wanting you to pray for them
or someone else to pray for them and
then I was talking about I was telling
you this earlier on about pass the buck
pray yeah and I’ve been teaching a lot
on that Lake you were someone’s I’ll
pray for you and there’s kind of like a
half-hearted little prayer he’ll make me
a genuine prayer maybe really heartfelt
and in a sec I kept on my work but have
you really because Vedas don’t do that
oh yeah we only have really when someone
is saying will you pray for me aren’t
they saying something deeper aren’t they
saying can you connect with me can you
somehow listen to me I need some kind of
support in some way should we not be
saying what’s your story can I can I
just listen do you need some time can
join adjust talk you know and is and
that’s much more effortful you know as a
you know it takes time it takes the
effort it takes maybe some takes some
phone calls some emails some time that
you’ve got to give up of your own yeah
but research shows that your own healing
when you do that and all of us need
healing constantly in every different
level increases by a factor of 68% when
we give to it quickly give to others so
be me praying for others it’s not just
for the benefit of mankind it’s for the
benefit of well it’s been for everything
you benefit the other person benefits
you start putting this whole laws of
love into it even some I could be wrong
on this reference but I think it’s Luke
6 or Luke 8 somewhere in there that says
give and it will be given back to you
whatever it is that you need we’ll give
it and it will be given back to you okay
so if it’s time or if it’s attention or
if it’s caring or whatever it is that
you need give it and that’s what comes
back to you which is what you’re saying
that it increases your healing by a
certain percentage because you
offering it to somebody else and it’s
just one of the laws of our God return
that to you
you know you’re feeding in that greedy
bad place and you feel like you want
someone to pray for you but you asked
and if someone says please would you
practically all please and you think I
don’t have the energy or that I know how
that’s the time when you really should
say yes absolutely what can I do and you
don’t have to do much you just have to
certain listen very often the orphans
may be just five minutes of it of
listening but that’s that’s part of
print as you listening you can be
talking to the Spirit of God saying lord
help me here what do I want yes and just
think about that person was I think so
often when we listening to other people
or even when you’re talking to God we’re
so busy thinking about what we want to
say and what we need that we or what we
want to say about our experience about
mother’s person that person is telling
us about the experience that we’re not
tuning into they need so it’s a matter
of get rid of your own need for a moment
tune in to that other person 100 percent
lift the Spirit of God moved through you
so that you can speak that word in
season and as you give it 100 percent
watch the what’s the change inside of
you because research shows that your
brain chemistry actually changes when
you do that so you and when you pray
your brain chemistry changes your brain
goes into the highest states of
intellectual function when you get into
that state of pray and worship which is
in love going into the rate of love but
you know what I find I’ve found recently
that I have been asking God what to even
pray well that’s good what what what do
you want me to pray because see we
always feel like I always feel like I’ve
got the solution for that person I know
what to pray you know to me are they
they think they know I want this job or
this promotion what we’re asking God for
that house or so they tell you basically
what they want you to pray for them and
obviously his ways are not our ways his
thoughts are not our thoughts and most
of us have our prayer requests are so
small we don’t we don’t realize it at
the time because in our category of
solutions that’s the top of the line but
he’s got categories we don’t even know
exists thank you so if and if just one
simply expand that’s right so we just
pray in our category we’re actually
limiting what could be a breathtaking
experience because we want this and
God’s got stuff we don’t even know how
to pray for
so I’ve been thinking even in regards to
my sons you know Lord I I’ve got this
picture in my head of what I’d love for
my boys but instead of just praying that
you would do that yes I just want to
pray a little bit that you would tell me
what you would like for me to pray for
my kid I’m thinking about when Jesus was
with Simon Peter and you know he knew
that there was gonna be a little tug of
war going on
yes spiritually with Peter and he did
not pray that he would not have the
struggle Jesus didn’t pray that Simon
would not have the struggle yes he
prayed that his faith would be
strengthened he said I’m gonna pray that
your faith is strengthened not that you
won’t go through what you’re about to go
through right so you had that you had
the resilience you know that’s right to
get through it he preferred to pray that
his resilience and faith would be
strengthened more than he wouldn’t have
the trouble and what we pray is Lord
take it away just no struggle just make
sure my kid doesn’t go through struggle
I don’t want to go through one big happy
story but that’s not life but if we pray
and say Lord actually what are you
trying to get out of this situation for
this person or for me then it probably
will change all of change our requests
so that we’re just praying the mind of
Christ for a particular person or for I
know I love that so actually asking God
what is it that you know it but you
actually want here now they they they
one is more involved it’s definitely
wouldn’t be a pastor by pre you actually
tuning into that person you you’re not
thinking about yourself we’re just you
know like working off a prayer you’re
actually tuning into the need of that
person via that that connection with the
Spirit of God right and getting that
that infant then that’s that’s
critically brilliant as well I think we
will always pray for what is easy and
convenient and makes us comfortable cuz
we’re humans were flesh we want life to
be especially in the western part of the
world where our conveniences are just so
you know accessible yeah and so we we
pray anemic prayers feeble weak prayers
because we really just want a happy life
that’s what we want so it will bring
unnecessary to do anything for a depth
of character and personality
makes this quite selfish yeah and you
realize it when really when you travel
to other parts of the world do you meet
people that come from other parts of the
world and you see a depth of character
you see a strength of faith through
horrible tragic circumstances you see
them still standing firm and having a
peace that passes all understanding
there’s a smile still on their face they
can still sleep at night despite the
fact that they’re going through things
most of us will never even yes and
you’re trying to forget how did that
happen it’s because convenience was not
their top priority they would like
convenience they would like comfort it
doesn’t water down those things it’s
just their top priority is how do I
honor God and what does God want in this
situation for me and for my family and
so it kind of conforms their perspective
on life’s difficulties totally different
angle totally different perspective as
opposed to so I agree with you Pacific
was what I see so much when I go around
doing what I do is people really I
mentioned in the beginning begging God
for you know change my husband change my
charge is this meanwhile this that’s not
even prayer that’s just you trying to
put your impose your will
meanwhile we need to be looking at that
China looking at it from totally
different perspectives I’m seeing that
there is that solution available that’s
already tuned in and we’ve got to see
the reality of reality of not just
trying to be happy and peaceful but she
makes you realize what what is it that
they’re going through yeah and get a
different perspective and you so write
about the whole concept of people that
you are coming from Africa and seeing
and working for 25 years in the most
poverty stricken traumatic environments
that you can imagine you know you just
see the champagne lifestyles and the
champagne praise is all from Corbin as
well just which is what you describe
there’s you know it’s it’s you need some
perspective it’s like we need to go
through certain things to be able to
realize that life’s not just about our
comfort laughs is about being human but
bringing heaven to earth with our minds
or being yelled to us with our minds we
literally by tuning into others of our
community focused on your hearing for
others that whole so the perspective of
pre is really shifting away some from
yourself to the needs of others right
and in that way your own needs somehow
if you don’t there’s a kind of shift of
the space
it’s a completely different as a mom
that’s very easy to you often talk about
your boys and your when you teach and
use them as examples and it’s so great
because people can relate to that and
you know what would you give us a
practical tip in a moment praying for
you in your boys and I would say you
know there’s a lot of guilt that we have
about this quiet time about devotions
and they are so important to carve out
some time where you have a place of
solitude of silence even if it’s your
bathroom so in place of silence you can
get for a few minutes that you lock the
door and you sit down and you spend 30
minutes with the Lord or 15 min to the
Lord but I think sometimes when we’re in
seasons of life where our kids are very
small or maybe we’re taking care of
elderly parents maybe the other side of
the spectrum or we’re just in a very
busy season if we don’t have an hour to
spend with God we are so laden with
guilt that we haven’t done it the way
we’ve been told it’s supposed to be done
that we do nothing so it’s the enemy
that makes us think if we can’t do it
this way then it’s not worth trying it
anyway and I think that that women who
are and men who are right in the throes
of raising a bunch of little kids and
everybody’s all over the place and most
of the time you know when your feet hit
the floor the possibility in the morning
that’s right and so you know there was
an a wiser older woman in my life
when my kids were much smaller who
really helped me to see that this would
be the time when the time of life when
practicing the presence of God is so
important that’s a phrase that brother
Lawrence gave years ago and it’s
basically what you’ve described in
connecting with the Spirit of God all
day long you’re just mindful and
thoughtful and you have to be
intentional about that so what that
means writing down scripture verses on
three by five cards and posting them
where you’re gonna wash dishes and where
you fold clothes and at the sandbox
where you’re gonna be watching your kid
playing on your dashboard taping one
there cuz you’re gonna be running
errands all day it’s this intentional
thought of how can i connect with God
throughout the day instead of feeling
guilty that I didn’t have an hour carved
out this morning and I just think people
need to be freed up to know that a
relationship with God is not just the
more
or evening it just be with them all day
long that’s really really was good to
emphasize that in this in the show and
you view verbalize that so magnificently
how we need to have a constant ongoing
discussion we said become you made from
lovely immersed in love love yeah and we
need to have this constant discussion to
activate that so yes it’s not that the
religious laws of really blog people are
believing they’re praying because
there’s nothing wrong with things have
devotions that don’t even we’re good for
you but if you can’t do the new last
time don’t let that you lifestyle you
from no connect and it’s not the only
way so you can do that it doesn’t mean
that you then turn into a horrible
person the rest of the day and you only
nice and in free time but effective you
maintain it through the day and it’s
really no I love using my reminders on
my phone if I’m working on something you
know there just pops up and it’s you
know you can set them to pop up as often
as you want and it just keeps you
focused well whenever I’m on whenever I
get to take a little vacation maybe once
a year I’m on vacation or I happen to be
in some couple days where I you know
maybe the kids went to Granny’s house
and I’m I’m at home and I get to wake up
leisurely and have a cup of coffee
whenever those moments happen I’m always
thinking Lord can this right here last
like how do I get how do I get this to
go into regular life when when life is
busy and we’re running errands we got
games and all that and that’s what what
you’re describing about connecting with
God that’s the bridge of how to bring
that feeling of I’m on vacation into the
regular rhythms of life it can’t just be
we’re waiting for that week in Mexico or
that week all not cruise it has to be
where I find out how to have a rhythm of
grace and peace by God’s Spirit that’s
why we have God’s Spirit that’s the
that’s the whole point of God being in
us and with me is to have that rhythm
and enjoy the abundant life he’s given
us access to throughout the whole year
not just once a week when we get to go
on vacation
this is profound what Priscilla has just
said is so incredibly profound that this
is not just a now and then thing this is
not just but that peace that you get
when you have those moments of
exceptional joy when you watching your
kids are you with your husband and
you on that holiday cruise that should
be in our everyday moments we need to
learn how to tap into that we need to be
able to rest in our busyness and that’s
kind of what your syllabus and some
pretty helps us doesn’t it Priscilla to
rest in that busyness yeah today we’re
not gonna be fun busy listen you won’t
it’s 1:00 now because it’s a great but
not we always am you can do busy well
you know the sign shows that we designed
to do busy well but we can do that by
keeping our souls focused and our brain
is just going to respond to our mind
yeah our bodies is going to respond to
our mind it’s the mind brain connection
so when we talk about the mind brain
connection we really are talking about
pre we’re talking about self-regulation
we’re talking about you know you think
just the the the the renewing of the
mind the bringing thoughts into
captivity this is and the implication is
what you were saying it’s a
self-regulation yeah and it’s a
self-regulation that keeps us in a state
of peace way I often explain what you
just explained now is freaking out in
the love zone so that the peace that you
feel you can bring into that crazy
moment of that crazy challenge that’s
crazy situation that crazy challenge
whatever’s going on it you can keep
maintaining it it’s been a constant goal
of mine to try to you know minimize and
downsize and you know not be busy busy
busy on all the margins so I think there
is you know we have to control our
business we have to align it we have to
think about priorities and but the
reality is even when we get our
priorities in order
even when we put first things first and
we’re still going to be busy even if
things are ordered you’re still gonna be
busy you know my boys are going to have
games they’re in three different sports
we’re gonna have games that we have
exactly this one has this test coming up
tomorrow that one has that test coming
up tomorrow there is still dinner to be
made
laundry still has to be done yes so
there’s going to be busyness you’ve got
a child so there’s gonna be busyness so
instead of being us instead of being you
know upset that our life is busy the
reality is like you’re saying we having
to find rest in the busyness
and I had a handle and I capture
ourselves when you feel ourselves as is
too much bringing ourselves back if you
make the mistake and get frustrated or
get irritated by self-regulating by
living a lifestyle of prayer by
connecting to the Spirit of God every 10
seconds which is what we designed to do
we didn’t catch ourselves instead of
falling apart from freaking out in those
moments we actually can figure out in
the love zone because they rule back on
that I go to do this and you might be
but you can still have that there’s
something in you that’s just flowing and
s that love that connection with the
Spirit of God that there’s connection
with love and it’s expressing I think
that’s what you what you saying and that
we can all do you think we can strive
with a P we designed for that now that’s
what I love about science prasada
because everything you saying everyone
who’s watching knows that this is
reality we know what Bristol is saying
is what we all meet we know it
instinctively you know what Priscilla
has been saying what we’ve been
discussing is something that you aspire
to that you instinctively feel that’s
something that you can you believe in of
how to bring it into your life how to
bridge it into your life how to make it
part of your life this is something you
can do you you can do this but you have
to choose to do it personally you had to
give a closing statement it’s something
that would be how would you represent
what would you do something practical
that what would you do like a a way of
its choice its accessing could you give
us a wise statement a closing statement
to Madison yeah just really say to make
a decision like she said choice is the
very beginning to make a decision that
tomorrow or today I am going to start to
self-regulate which means as she’s
described standing outside of yourself
and monitoring in those moments when
you’re starting to feel frustrated and
I’m starting to feel the stress
overwhelm you and begin to dictate your
actions in your words to take that
moment to self-regulate but not only
that to take out a pen and a piece of
paper and write down literally write
down what you’re going to be mindful of
throughout the day the moments that you
already know that are coming
conversations you already know you’re
going to be having to have with a boss
or a co-worker or a spouse things that
normally arouse something in you that
you don’t like the look of go ahead and
write those things down
and then praise specific to those things
and ask the Lord in advance to prepare
you for those moments and then ask him
to already give you the piece already
give you the tools that you can access
in the moment that those things arise
that will enable you to honor him and to
honor those around you when those
moments come thank you for joining us
today and I look forward to seeing you
next time this is the doxa leaf show
thank you for joining me I hope you
enjoyed that discussion and learned lots
of information about pre faith and
science and if you want to keep up to
date with all things related to the mind
and mental health don’t forget to
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and you’ll be kept up to date thank you
for joining me I’m dr. Caroline Lee are
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scientifically proven five-step learning
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your unique mind to find meaningful
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